Stewy Stuadenwalt

Ted Abbey wrote:Of course there are benefits to any living thing, but not poison hemlock in relation to humans and other animals. Intoxication of even a small amount can result in death.. usually from ingestion, but also from inhalation (while burning), or even skin contact.  I found a small stand last year behind a pond on another property that I was caretaking. I had planned to pasture my pigs there, but that idea was abandoned upon discovering poison hemlock. I removed what I could, (completely covered up, and heavy rubber gloves) in an attempt to interrupt the reproductive cycle. The property has since changed owners, but I made sure to make the new owner aware of the danger, and wished him luck!

Thanks Ted,
I have my finger on the 2-4-d trigger here.
I'm trying to find some specifics on the benefits.  
I figured someone on here could list some & talk me off the herbicide ledge.

In a effort not to kill it , does anyone know of a benefit from having this plant ? Surely it does something ?
Seems like biomass might be one of them .

Goats. Hands down . First hand experience

chip sanft wrote:

Tyler Ludens wrote:It seems like the grass would get trampled and pooped on before it could be grazed, under those densities.  

My thought, too. Is that what real mobbing takes?

I think you can do it with less animal units, but remember they might be moving to next paddock in 12 to 72 hours depending on the intensity of the rotation. I also think that is how the grazing term "Mob" came about.

Tyler Ludens wrote:

eric koperek wrote:You need to run at least 200 to 300 animal units per acre

Three HUNDRED cows per acre?

Eighteen HUNDRED sheep per acre?

60,000 chickens per acre?

Or is my math somehow way off?

I thought the same thing , but he said a 9ft x 8ft area per cow and there is 43560 sq.ft per acre....... So I think that is correct

A  big Thank You to all who have replied and tried to help out!

Dan Grubbs wrote:I haven't done side-by-side comparisons, but I have taken a different approach.

I let everything grow and die off naturally now at the advice of a really smart and experienced NRCS agent who has really helped me.  I was originally going to roll-crimp the grasses down to create a nice thick mat of biomass.  As we were walking over the pasture, the NRCS agent and I were discussing the approach. He said it would be even better if I just let the things grow and die off naturally. I took his advice and am happy I did.

The land holds more water and allows it to infiltrate more slowly. The die off in the winter puts it all onto the soil and it begins decomposing quickly. The earthworm population has exploded ... and I have to assume the microbial live has too.  Repeated mowing and haying reduces the species of grasses and forbs in a pasture. By letting the grasses and forbs die off naturally, I have a more extensive root network for longer than if I rolled, mowed or hayed.

Those are my two cents.

I'm on board with ya , I'm just wondering how you keep it from turning back into brush and then woods?

R Scott wrote:Turning it over does do better SHORT TERM.  But it will destroy soil structure and increase compaction if done incorrectly or repeatedly.

If you want a completely different pasture mix, you can plow shallow so it is just turning over sod and not inverting deep soil and then plant new mix.

Key line subsoiling will break up compaction and speed up root growth with minimal impact to microbiology or existing plant mix, but repeated use will limit the fungal network.

And as Dan said, letting it go to maturity and degrade naturally also feeds the soil differently. As does running livestock.

So what do you want for the pasture?

I am mob grazing sheep and they seem to do better when the overall height of forage is in the 12-24 inch range. After  they go through a area I usually clip the field and let the process start all over again.
In addition to that I overseed with whatever I feel that section is lacking in and was really wondering what else I could do to improve the ground.
   I know of a piece of ground that the owner is a "cover crop freak " and his dad and him have been turning Cover Crops under for 70 +years and he has the thickest dark topsoil of any place around. I know that method works , and sure has me leaning in that direction as our C&D practice hasn't yielded near the results

Dan Grubbs wrote:I haven't done side-by-side comparisons, but I have taken a different approach.

I currently have about 20 acres in pasture that previously was being hayed twice a year before I bought it.  I let everything grow and die off naturally now at the advice of a really smart and experienced NRCS agent who has really helped me.  I was originally going to roll-crimp the grasses down to create a nice thick mat of biomass.  As we were walking over the pasture, the NRCS agent and I were discussing the approach. He said it would be even better if I just let the things grow and die off naturally. I took his advice and am happy I did.

The land holds more water and allows it to infiltrate more slowly. The die off in the winter puts it all onto the soil and it begins decomposing quickly. The earthworm population has exploded ... and I have to assume the microbial live has too.  Repeated mowing and haying reduces the species of grasses and forbs in a pasture. By letting the grasses and forbs die off naturally, I have a more extensive root network for longer than if I rolled, mowed or hayed. Key principles to take away: 1) disturb the soil as little as possible, 2) keep living roots in the soil as long as possible, 3) encourage biodiversity, 4) keep cover on the soil as long as possible.

I would never turn my pasture over. That exposes the soil food web (microbial life) to harsh conditions that kill much of it. It also vaporizes valuable soil moisture. Most of all, it breaks down the soil structure reducing its ability to infiltrate water and you end up with compaction and erosion problems.

Let it grow and die off naturally until you're ready to manage it with managed/mob grazing.  You can even inter-plant a row crop into cover crop with a seed drill. Your animals could graze the top third and trample the rest onto the surface of the soil if you move them frequently enough. But, I would never turn my pasture over.  That leads to compaction, erosion, and destruction of soil food web and soil structure.  

Those are my two cents.

Wow interesting. My neighbor has been doing this for a long time and he has the most hemp dogbane, iron weed , golden rod, patch around . ( It's like weed central) If cows or sheep would eat it I wouldn't mind but he just seems to get more of it every year. I'm guessing all that stuff going to seed every year doesnt help matters.
      We have C&D a 5 acre piece with no grazing for the last 15 years and I am just really not impressed with the results.  

Hi all. In my quest to better some pasture I wonder what the best way to approach it is.  I like the ease of C&D ( and have been doing this through brush hogging for years ) but wonder if I'm better off to turn things under ?  For whatever reason Im guessing if I divided a field in half and compared methods , the side that the cover crops were turned under the soil would turn out better.
Whether it's Volatilization loss or other reasons I just feel that way.  
  Has anybody done any side by side comparisons ?