Rafael Pareja

Thank you so much Len for your response. although very helpful for computer users, your solution doesn't address the problem for iOS and Android users (tablets and phones). I should have been more specific in my original message.

On the positive side, I find the graphics quite cute and in keeping with the main website. Personally, I prefer uncluttered websites, and especially in forums, the cleaner the better.

Two important points to consider

1. I'm sure that many users would like to see an option for adjusting text size.

2. Folk not living in the USA, or other leading parts of the digital world, that have to endure very slow internet speeds at exorbitant costs. Graphics heavy pages take too long to load and use up extra data, compleatly unnecessary in a forum page.

Kind regards 😊

Thanks Deborah for all the sound advice!

How very perceptive of you, in the theme of fibre production only, we were thinking that it would probably be important to have enough animals of one type, eventually. We're not planning on processing the fibre in any way at this stage, but selling it in its raw state. However, we are open to the idea of keeping a variety of animals.

Like you, we love goats' and sheep's milk cheese and we'll definitely be starting off small. The old Spanish proverb certainly sounds like words of wisdom and I'll check out the thread on lactation that you indicated.

Hello Katy, Kurt and Tiffani. Thank you all for your advice and shared experiences.

Re. Cashmere / Angora goats for mohair production. I very much like your suggestion Katy and I shall certainly look into it and see what breads are available in this part of the world.

Kurt, thank you for your input on so many of my points, it's much appreciated and is now a part of my growing knowledge on these particular creatures.

Tiffani, your comments on milk production and its products is very helpful, as were your points of experience comparing sheep and goats.

Firstly, welcome Deborah! We would appreciate any information you might offer about goats and the other animals listed if possible. That goes for advice offered by other enthusiasts.

I'm not familiar with the forum format, so advanced apologies if I've missed the concept and not got it correct.


BACKGROUND

My partner and I have just acquired a small farm of 5 hectares in the Andes, at an altitude of 2500 meters above sea level. We are new to farming and permaculture and very enthusiastic about our newly chosen off-grid lifestyle. We are in the very early stages of putting the farm and farmhouse into operational and living conditions which will take time to fully accomplish. We are considering keeping several types of animal in the future that may include any of the following: goats, sheep, llamas and alpacas. The farm has a main open space, some of which is divided into lots and recently used for cultivation. There are also several large and small terraces and an abundance of fresh water year round, vital in this semi-arid and cool subtropical steppe climate. There are numerous mature trees offering shade. Many areas of the farm have been abandoned for years and need clearing of thorny shrubs and weeds. Additionally, there are some meadow areas, some of which can be partially used for the animals to graze, and for landscaped recreational gardens and other multipurpose use.


POTENTIAL UTILITY AND ECONOMIC BENEFITS

1. - How does the dung of the four listed animals compare for enriching the soil? Are there any other pros or cons to consider in this specific area?

2. - There already exists a reasonable supply of goat's milk in the community. How does sheep's milk compare in taste, quantity of production etc? I've only ever tried it in the form of cheese. Also, I'm told that llamas produce milk suitable for human consumption and is also used to make cheese, although I know little about its taste, quality, nutrition or quantity. Does that go for the alpacas too? If so, again how does it compare? Cheese is an area of production that interests us. Artisanal cheeses for the house and for small scale sales. If milking the other three types of animal is similar to that of goats, we will be able to learn from the local community, if not please indicate.

3. - Although not vegetarians (I was, however, for a decade in my youth), we haven't decided on whether or not to occasionally consume, for ourselves or for guests, any of the animals that we otherwise care for. If one is to continue to eat animals, then why not those, with the certainty, that they have been well cared for, slaughtered as humanly as possible, and 100% organic. This is a debate we may be having for a while yet. So animal food production might be limited to dairy, eggs and honey.

4. - Fibre production. This is where the goat loses out, if I'm not mistaken. Alpaca fibre is highly regarded for its fine quality and fetches the highest price. Regarding the use of llama fibre and the market for it I'm still uncertain, but I hear it is used locally. In terms of quantity of production per animal, what could we expect? And how often are they shawn? I've read that llamas are shawn once every two years. Are there any other considerations on this subject that we should be aware of?

5. - How much land, per each type of animal I've listed, would be needed in order to lead a contented and relatively free range life? As I previously mentioned, the farm has good access to water with irrigation channels and a stream that weaves its way around much of the meadow areas. The animals could be given controlled access to meadow areas (as living lawnmowers) some of which could be made permanent with fencing. There is an area of approximately 1/2 hectare currently unirrigated and unused and full of thorny shrubs and other semi-arid highland vegetation, but with a water course nearby, ideal for the goats and sheep to roam freely. Would the two llama breeds be content to eat such vegetation and to spend time there too, as long as they get to spend time to graze pasture? We are also open to the idea of extending the property to enable more roaming space for our animals in the future. Much of the surrounding land is unproductive and unused and might be put to good use this way.

6. - Are there any other considerations that we should take into account? I would like to know which species would be the least destructive of ornamental vegetation in an environment offering ample fresh grass? It's the living lawnmower idea again. Some of the meadow areas are planned for landscaped gardens and recreational use. We're aware that, with patient and appropriate training, llama males in particular have been used as for carrying packs of reasonable weights and even small carriages. Their smaller cousin the alpaca is no longer used this way, but with lighter weights, I believe they could be. This would be especially useful to us when harvesting and would save us the need for a donkey or mule.

Clearly, we have plenty of work and research ahead of us, but I hope my questions and points of interest are pertinent and useful to others as they are to us 😊