Cathy Wilde

Regarding the problem of visitors to the Fisher Price House not respecting Paul and Jocelyn's privacy and house rules: Paul has ruled the permies.com site with intractable rules of 'niceness' that one disobeys at one's peril. This works and makes this site safe for all. Visitors could be handed a list of 'nice rules for boots' and that should solve the issue. ☺

I have been lurking on permies.com for a good while and only recently made a couple of posts. However, I didn't see this thread or the 'be nice' thread before I posted. Also I still do not completely understand how 'apples' 'pies' etc work.
So could I make a suggestion? Could there be a 'welcome to permies forums' post put above all the forums so that newbies could read about how the site works and what is and is not acceptable to our Great Leader the Lord Paul? Maybe with links to these important posts, so in that way people would be less inclined to jump in and offend others without understanding the ground rules? Having the threads about how to behave and how to post in an acceptable way hidden at the very bottom of the forums means that a newbie has to root around a good lot before finding them. Unless maybe that is the plan??? I love this site. I love the rules! As someone above said, its about being polite in someone's house and not starting a row with the host or another guest when invited for dinner.

And I guess that 90% of Facebook / social media users would not believe that corporate trolls exist. If I put up such a post warning others about how opinions are being manipulated to advance corporate or even government objectives, I would probably be accused of paranoia !!! Or worse !!! Due to mass indoctrination by tv and other trivial entertainment media, the general public have lost the power of critical thinking...if they ever had it.
I remember studying Julius Caesar in school. And how Mark Anthony totally manipulated the crowd in his speech 'I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him' This alerted me to how a good orator can change people's opinions by emotional language, false logic and circular reasoning. That was back in 1969 !!! I had a good English teacher.
So how do 'we' combat this Thought Army that has infiltrated our social media? Permies.com is safe. But what about all the millions of sites with no or poor moderation? Personal pages? Also out into the wider world of the written press and TV / Radio. . .we are being manipulated and have our opinions formed by a few corporations and government agencies.
Its a scary world! What is the truth any more . . . When even scientists who have the ability to prove that a = x can be bought and will publish that a = y even though they know it to be false.
Teaching critical thinking and logic both in schools
and in adult education is vital. . .but will governments allow it? This topic has opened a can of worms . .

In my opinion the best answer to trolls is already implemented here: Carefully moderated boards, opportunity for any of us to instantly report suspect posts, the fact that the mods and helpers are aware of the possibility of trolls attacking this site puts us way ahead. We have excellent rules to ensure polite and carefully reasoned opinions are acceptable, but unsubstantiated claims will always be questioned by independent minded permies 😊 I read the link from Paul above about paid and government funded trolls and was not surprised. Even here in little Ireland I see backers of GMO's very active on farming and gardening sites. Also climate change deniers. 'to be aware is to be prepared' . Permies.com is a priceless resource for all of us seeking to save our planet and the many species that live here.I presume the 'back yard'team have everything backed up and attack proofed? Let us go forward to World Domination in the knowledge that we are in good hands

Yes Roger, 'no till' is the way to go for small and large scale agriculture, both to conserve energy and to keep the integrity of the soil, which is disturbed by conventional tillage, with valuable top soil and nutrients being lost in the process as well as the complex systems of bacteria and fungi that are so vital for plant growth. My opinion is that humans will move towards a vegetarian diet, both for health reasons, and because using animals for food uses up too much acreage that could produce far more plant food and help towards reducing world hunger. There is also the ethical questions of animal welfare under factory farming conditions, which causes lifetime misery for so many sentient creatures. And this also applies to animals being used for work.Fine when it's done by experienced handlers and the animals are well treated. History shows that millions of beasts of burden have been worked to death by humans.Still happening in parts of the world. Pig and chicken tractors are great and I don't have a problem with them being kept on a small scale as long as their welfare needs are all catered for. Keeping animals leads to breeding, which always ends with a surplus of males. Again no problem with males being humanely slaughtered for meat but increasing government regulation means that in most places it is illegal to slaughter an animal anywhere only in a registered slaughter house. Which is a terribly stressful place for any animal to die. Many have to wait several days before they reach end point. They are surrounded by smells and sounds of death.So much kinder to kill them at home as EVAN Described how his pig met it's end up at the Labs. So I suppose I am against much use of animals in Permaculture set ups, but that's just my opinion.

I agree with Suzanne about the Shetland ponies. They are immensely strong and very hardy. I would not ask them to plough. For that you need 3 large heavy horses like Shires, Clydesdales or Percherons. Two work at a time on a single share plough with the third one being used to spell the others in turn. These large horses will be sweating and blowing hard after ploughing 100 yards of clay soil. They would be totally uneconomical for a small homestead. In olden days they would work the farm year round, ploughing, harrowing, rolling, sowing, carting manure to be spread on fields, harvesting, taking produce to market etc. and would usually have Sunday off. A pair of shetlands could harrow land that had been ploughed, pull a small roller and a small sowing machine. But as others have said, it would be difficult to find scaled down machinery to fit them. They could also pull a small trap and provide transport if local roads are quiet. They ate good for helping to clear scrubby ground, as they can eat much coarser herbage than most equines. They can live out with supplementary feed in cold winters but would be better stabled. Then you will need bedding as well as fodder. And it takes a lot of experience to keep and train any equine. So many people bought ponies during the Celtic Tiger here and many were badly neglected due to lack of knowledge. So unless you have an acre you can use for grazing and turnout, separate from your growing area, I don't think any equines are very suitable for Permaculture, unless you already have experience and could stack functions by running courses on using equines on the land and maybe also organising picnic drives or such for hire. I know someone who has his son's jumping pony pulling a beautiful buggy to bring brides to church for weddings. I have seen so many horses and ponies abused by people with insufficient knowledge. They are long suffering animals and will put up with years of abuse. . .

Thank you all for your considered replies. No I do not have the Lorry body yet. I am researching it! Where I am living at present has several sheds, all in a state of dereliction, or at least with leaking roofs. I need a place to safely store their contents while the sheds are being renovated. And I thought that a ready made 'shed' that could be driven or towed onto site would be a quick fix....and then if it could be converted into a usable living space afterwards, it would be a labour saving plan. I had at first wanted to build a wooden hut/house....but as this will take longer, and I need immediate access to dry storage, I started looking at lorry bodies and shipping containers...I thought they would be longer lasting than a porta cabin, and the refrigerated unit would already have insulation...it was the issues of ventilation, heating and condensation I was most concerned about....and I also thought of eventually putting a larger A frame roof above the lorry....with overhanging eaves to keep rain off the metal structure and from the immediate surroundings, maybe with a greenhouse lean to on the south side, for passive heat, and no windows at all on North side, this roof would facilitate rain harvesting.......definitely would like a wooden inside lining.....just not sure how to incorporate this with the window openings. I understand about having to reinforce the window/door openings on top to keep the integrity of the wall, just not sure what materials would be best? I would prefer to use salvaged wooden windows rather than metal windows.....thought about having sliding french doors taking up the whole of the end of the truck where the cargo is normally loaded, keeping the metal doors as 'shutters' that could be closed in bad storms, otherwise folded back and tied into the sides. Any further ideas or comments welcome!

Yes, I do realise that its a 'tin can', that's why I asked about insulation and ventilation. Obviously, windows and doors will have to be put in. But what about ventilation shafts? if so, where and how? I live in Ireland, we have very wet winters, sometimes a week of almost nonstop rain, followed by several more like that....and it can get to minus 5 C to 10 C on rare occasions, but average winter temperatures minus 3 C to plus 7 C, with strong winds making temperatures feel lower, so good heating is very important in winter. Summers can peak 25C to 28C during day times, but would average about 15C to 20C, with colder nights, and still a fair bit of rain....Can you explain about suggested heat exchange/air circulation unit?
I did live in a small caravan for 3 years, and had a tiny wood burning stove which kept the place very snug, and didn't have bad condensation at all

Does anyone know how to convert a Refrigerated Lorry Body into a habitable space? I am not talking about interior layout, but how to insert window and door spaces without weakening the walls, how to insulate and ventilate the interior, what would be suitable interior wall materials, and if it would be advisable to put on an external cladding? I am not technically qualified, I have a friend who can do basic building and carpentry. Please do not use very technical language! Thanks folks!