Lisa Orr

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since Jun 09, 2017
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Northborough, MA
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Recent posts by Lisa Orr

Doug Martin wrote:In the US, there are not many recycling facilities for Styrofoam unfortunately.  I researched it a long while back and essentially, it takes a LOT of styrofoam to justify recycling.  And I mean a LOT.  

Austin Resource Recovery collects it, melts it down into ropey-looking bricks, and sells it.  Also they let you take for free as much as you want if you need it for packing material.

3 years ago
This is so delightful.  Love the foxfire series, love seeing/hearing John Denver again.

William Bronson wrote:

Fox James wrote:That is an interesting project but there seems to be a lot of exposed  ceramic fibre, are you concerned  about any heath issues as breathing in super heated ceramic fibers is said to be very dangerous?


The fiber you see is almost certainly biologically inert.
It is pretty standard at this point, other ceramic fiber insulations are cheaper but explicitly dangerous.

There are some who have said that  biological safe ceramic fibers are rendered dangerous by direct exposure to the heat and gasses inside a rocket stove or heater.
That conclusion doesn't seem to be widely accepted.
If it is true many of the most common builds might be spewing dangerous fibers.
That would be a real blow to progress in rocket combustion devices.
Like emissions,  this is something that should be tested to know for sure.



Ceramic blanket (the older Kaowool) was considered dangerous when it was handled/moved because the fibrous dust could get in the lungs and cause long term probs.  I just re-read the MSDS for superwool that WL is using, and it encouraged not getting on skin or in lungs ("wear appropriate safety equipment"), but states that rats exposed to it for years never developed health problems.  I think in general best to avoid touching it which breaks its fibers.  Heat applied to it is no issue, I still cling to my old habit--best not to touch it and crinkle it, etc.  I am glad to know there is safer ceramic blanket.
3 years ago

William Bronson wrote:These tempatures are amazing.
I'm excited by the hope that a rocket kiln could produce fire brick.
The work of Jon and Flip Anderson focused on this kind of bootstrapping, as they used un fired earthen rocket stoves to fire other earthen rocket stoves, achieving a better product for the next iteration.


Lisa, is making firebricks in these kilns a realistic prospect or wishful thinking on my part?



Yes no reason why not.  You might have to fire pretty slowly in the beginning, think about not having water boil at 212F inside your firing brick.  That said, a quick search brought up all sorts of DIY firebrick recipes. Bricks are sort of thick, so long drying +slow firing is key. Long ago when I volunteered at the San Antonio missions as potter in residence, I was able to access some antiquities unearthed around there, including a spanish mission brick.  It was thinner than usual bricks, probably because of drying time and the vagaries of firing lots of bricks right there on site.  Have you seen how they stack up house bricks for firing in Mexico?  They are all criss crossed with tunnels of air between for airflow.  Try something like that maybe.
3 years ago
Pottery and Ceramics firing for Permies step by step:

1     Wild clay prospecting and processing
2     Analysis:  shrinkage, absorption, firing range
3     Difference between a wild clay and an adjusted clay body
4     Forming techniques, construction and glazing
5     Single firing vs twice fired, and glazing
6     How to tell the temperature in a kiln during firing:  cones/thermocouples. Understanding “heatwork”
7     Creating/sourcing a kiln/firing chamber + locating the kiln on top of the heat riser
8     Considerations for loading/stacking ware
9     Proper heating of pottery pieces
10   What do the pottery terms oxidation vs reduction mean?
11   Ceramic pieces that might be useful to permies:  tableware, fermentation crocks, tiles, rooftiles, ollas, water channel liners, bread warmers, terracotta water coolers, sculptures, toys, games, etc.

1.   Wild clays have been harvested and utilized for millenia for all of the above uses and more.  Upon locating a potential source, add a small handful of the material to some water in the palm of the hand, mix thoroughly (it should be sticky), roll into a chubby earthworm and bend it into a ring. Most usable clays will not break. If it breaks it might be too sandy or too “short” (not sticky enough), this can be dried and put into campfire, bbq pit, etc to see its color, etc.   To process:  Shovel clay chunks into bucket(s), spread chunks out on tarp to dry and break up large chunks with hammer or by putting it in a pathway and walk across it for several days.  When dry, dump these into a bucket with water to slake down -with enough water to completely cover the clay.  Leave for several hours or days or weeks. Stir with mortar mixing attachment if desired, and pour or ladle the mixture through a window-sized mesh screen into a wheelbarrow.  Place on a plaster bat to dry the liquid to a moist, usable material. Store in a bucket with a damp towel covering the top of the lump and always keep a lid on it.  Use liberally when inspired.

2.   For further clay analysis, make several 6” long test bars, approx ¼” thick slab and 1” wide, with the inch marks indented, which approximates the look of a 6” ruler.  Mark it with the clay name or location. Place these into various firings, and after each firing sharpie the temperature each bar made it to. Measure each each one again after firing and use this to figure shrinkage for finished pieces you might make. It is well to place these at different levels in an unevenly firing kiln nearby cone packs (heat measurers inside the kiln) so that one can see the fired clay at extreme temps.

3.     Wild clays are what are available in a landscape, harvested locally, usually not amended.  A clay body is one that is adjusted by the addition of other minerals such at silica, sand, other clays, etc. so it will give desired characteristics.  Wheaton Lab Clay is a wild clay.

4.    We primarily used the slab technique (with rolling pins) at Wheaton Labs primarily to make mugs, bowls and plates supported by metal forms (and lined with cheesecloth to facilitate release).  Parts needed to be assembled by scoring the seams and slipping with watery clay slip as a glue.  These can be fired once to the desired temperature, or “bisqued” to facilitate easier glazing in a subsequent firing.  Handy tools include clay cutting wire, sponge, ribs (credit card tools), needle tools or shish kebab sticks, loop tools. Important that it nothing is thicker than a thumb, because it water could take too long to evaporate inside a thick clay wall causing an explosion during firing.

5.    Preheating wares in the Wheaton pizza oven to 220F- ish for several hours and when it appears dry, raise the temps to 400+ to thoroughly evaporate off all physical and chemically combined water.  At 212F, water moves out at ¼”inch per hour. Pieces can be glazed after drying, but need to be placed back in oven after glazing for approx 30 min.  Glazing fired ware is very typical for many potters due to the ease of applying glaze coatings to fired ware.  The glazes left at Wheaton Lab are designed for cone 04 and those fit the Lab terracotta clay.  If a white background for the glazes is desired, apply white engobe first, do sgraffito decoration (scratch a design or words through to the darker background), and LASTLY glaze.

6.     Temperature historically has been read with different techniques. Most potters use Orton pyrometric cones for a precise read.  A typical earthenware like Wheaton Lab clay matures between cone 04 and cone 02 according to our test clay bars next to the cone packs.  Handy cones WL needs are large size cones in 06 (we have these) 04, 02, 1, 3.  If higher firing of the Lincoln Fireclay is desired, then cones 8, 9, 10, 11 are also required.  These are lined up in a finger sized piece of clay, lowest temp goes from left to right. Poke holes in the clay for fast drying.  Thermocouple probes stuck into the kiln at low and higher spots measure rise of the atmosphere, but cannot be trusted to display the true temperature of the wares.  Cones are required to accurately know the temperature of the mass inside the kiln termed “heat work”. Do place those carefully in front of the peepholes for regular checking once the kiln gets orange color inside it. They will melt/bend over from left to right as the temperature rises, preferably even on top and bottom of the kiln. The thermocouple temperatures will read higher than the cones.  For some reason our thermocouples read accurately up to 2000 in F and then we need to switch to Celcius.

7.     Sourcing a kiln/firing chamber:  WL has a rad one Paul designed very differently from conventional and traditional kilns.  If one comes across an old electric kiln for free or cheap, one can repurpose this as a ware chamber.  It would need to be balanced/supported atop a 6” J tube, but we found the 8” J tube engine to be easier to heat.  Also coals need to be scraped out at least twice during the firing to cone 04 if the kiln stalls. Stay tuned to Permies.com for improved engine and kiln placement/configurations or create your own.  Alternatively, the repurposed kiln or other ceramic fiber lined box (preferably with a door like a mini-fridge) can be placed as the lower section of the heat riser with a fiber or other chimney on top.

8.     Pauls kiln needs to be loaded with shelves centered between its riser and exit chambers.  Cone locations+levels are marked on the chimney and floor for ease of placement.  Loading taller pots on the lowest/first level creates open space for evening out the lower temperatures toward the bottom of that kiln.

9.      Heating ceramics properly:  There are 2 temperatures when one needs to fire slowly, 500F and 1100F. Additionally physical water (up to 300F) and chemically combined water (up to 700F approx) need a slower heat rise to escape from the walls of the clay. If one preheats slowly (see step 5), one can just fire a little more slowly up to 500F (smaller pieces).  Larger pieces, large tiles or complicated sculptures will require a firing that allows the whole piece to be heated evenly throughout or thermal shock (due to quartz inversion) will cause cracking.

10.      The rocket kiln firing is primarily an oxidation atmosphere firing, meaning that there is little or no smoke in the atmosphere affecting the ware, similar to results from a regular electric kiln.  Reduction firing is one where smoke is present and creates desired clay and glaze effects. Reduction is a term that means “reduced oxygen” that you will hear potters refer to.  Most wood kilns are designed to use reduction to create smoke patterns on their pots. The surprising advantage of the rocket kiln is that the smoke is used up and turned into heat before it reaches the ware causing less pollutants and far less wood used, plus the small size is handy for the individual or hobby potter, and will not disturb neighbors.

11.     Things permies might like to make:  tableware, fermentation crocks, tiles, rooftiles, ollas, water channel liners, bread warmers, graters, juicers, terracotta water coolers, sculptures, toys, games, etc.  Note that some pottery pieces are more suitable for stoneware (high fire clay such as Lincoln Fireclay) and some for earthenware such as WL clay.  Depends on how useful porosity or lack of will be useful for your project: example for porosity being a + are garden ollas, water coolers, etc.  Fermentation crocks can be sterilizable high fire stoneware or earthenware as they have been utilized for millenia (amphorae, qvevri, fermentation crocks common in places where earthenware is abundant.)  

I was honored to get to lead this harvesting and firing project at the PJT 2022 and I learned Permies and great with their hands and really can make nice things.  My picture attachments are not attaching but this sheet might help anyone interested in this topic.  Lisa Orr

3 years ago

Richard Henry wrote:This is a fascinating project and I want to follow it as it matures.  One question - I have a good sized deposit of a very fine grained, clean clay that comes out with a bail looking like commercial slip.  It fires at a lower temperature than this is reaching.  How would one be able to control the burn to modify temps for various materials as some will turn into a useless puddle (although probably purer) if subjected to full heat?  I would think that calibration of a unit by using cones internally and then getting the temperature of an outside surface to create a table might be possible.  Any other thoughts on how to keep an eye on the internal temps?



You can just put your clay into a rocket kiln, choose cones that match the ideal temp for your clay, place them inside the kiln next to your clay, and stop the firing at the temp correct for your clay. This is what we did.  To find out the correct temp for Wheaton lab clay, we did make test bars that we overfired some of them just to make sure. We got lava at higher temps.  So the cones and clay are both inside and one has to peek through spy holes in the kiln to see if cones are bending.  
3 years ago
The proof is in the coning.


Yes!  The ceramic cones indicated the heat work (ware/interior mass heating) done by the heat in the riser atmosphere.  All our firing attempts were a little uneven top to bottom.  Both repurposed kiln firings were hotter on the bottom our 2-hour low-fire one (on the 8" rocket engine) came out with cone 1 bottom cone 04 top---translation: 2077 bottom and 1945 top , and our high fire (with kiln high atop a 6" rocket engine) came out with cone 7 on top 2259F and cone 9 on bottom 2296F in just over 5 hours.  So the heat stayed toward the bottom in both.  We tried to allow the heat enough space to move up through the kiln-- probably different shelf arrangement is needed for a more even firing.  Paul's kiln was hotter on top with both firings, getting to cone 1-2 on top (call it 2088F approx) and almost cone 04 on the bottom 1945F also in a little over 5 hours. Interestingly, both top and bottom pyrometer probes read almost even on Paul's design, but the heat work was much greater on the top.  Probably all these kiln types would be improved by different kiln furniture stacking arrangements. Speed is NOT necessarily desired by potters as both clay and glaze development can get better with a little more time, but the concept of firing clay, glaze, glass, and probably forging, etc is proven with the low resource, low pollution rocket engine technology.

Personally I think Mud's design drawings at the top of this thread with the kiln/forge on the lower part will work well as research continues.  That 8" engine is killer at delivering plenty of heat in a very short time, though the 6" did the job great also.  Having an easy coal cleanout was SUPER helpful, and gave the handy byproduct of biochar (needs inoculation before use)  It is also well working at these temps not to have to work right over or near any chimneys, -- those things give off lots of heat.  

While these kiln experiments were VERY successful in my view, potters and probably permies with a pottery project they care about will require a way to fire more evenly.  I look forward to seeing how this might be achieved using a rocket engine + kiln in the future.



3 years ago
2 successful rocket kiln firings!  Lowfire and midrange achieved in Wheaton Crossdraft here in under 3 hours on an 8”rocket engine with handy coal bed cleanout under the loading chamber.  
3 years ago
And here are the results of this little kiln’s first firing!  We got to about 2050 on the bottom and 1945 approximately at the top. This is in Fahrenheit.  It took us two hours to achieve temperature. We could’ve fired slower and it might have been better for the pottery pieces although everything survived really nicely in spite of the extreme ramp up in temperature
3 years ago