David Baillie

Phil Stevens wrote:Hiya Russ. I'll take a puff from my pipe and spin a yarn for you:

Ohm's law was still in effect last time I checked. So if you raise the voltage you decrease the current. The amount of power in the circuit stays the same. Energy is power over time. So if the power is constant and you choose a time interval, the energy will also stay the same.

Why does this matter? Because the electrical energy does not come out of nowhere. The engine has to do some work to turn a magneto (or generator, or alternator). Whatever creates the voltage potential in the first place takes rotational power from the crankshaft. The engine has to convert fuel into expanding gas to turn the crankshaft.

Let's just imagine for a minute that firing a spark plug inside the cylinder of an internal combustion engine filled with air and salt water actually ionised all the water molecules and now it's an explosive mix of hydrogen and oxygen molecules. The water molecules were held together with a force that required an energetic discharge in the spark that was greater in order to break them.

However, the amount of energy available from combustion of hydrogen in the presence of oxygen is about the same. For the purposes of this thought exercise we'll say it's equal. So we've put a certain amount of electrical energy into the system to crack all the water molecules and make them go boom, and now we need to take the energy released from the boom to push the piston, turn the crankshaft, and work against the resistance of the magneto in order to generate the electricity to make the next spark.

if you had an engine that was 100% efficient in turning the potential energy of the hydrogen/oxygen mix into rotation, you might be able to imagine something like this. But the very best internal combustion technology tops out in the low to mid 30 percent region. Then you've got friction losses from bearings, gears, and couplings, internal resistance in the magneto windings, the air resistance across the spark gap, and finally, the pin that bursts the whole bubble:

You'll never get more energy out of the H and O by burning them than you put in to crack the H2O. That would be one serious magneto in order to get the output you need, and I don't think a lawnmower engine would be up to the challenge of turning it over.

Have you got a demo unit available for testing?

Very well stated Phil,
I would have added metal embrittlement from the hydrogen and general accelerated corrosion by the salt let alone rapid failure of the magneto. Some of the brown gas crowd claimed firing improvement when using hydrogen to supplement a traditional carb driven engine but modern fuel injection and variable timing killed those gains already.
I sense it won't make a bit of difference though.
Cheers,  David

John Weiland wrote:Rebumping this thread to see if anyone has come across products by PulseTech for rejuvenating lead acid batteries.
Has there been any mention or testimonials about the PulseTech brand of battery desulphators, specifically the PowerPulse unit? As the attached photo shows, it comes in 12, 24, and 48V models and apparently would attach to the same posts as the charger (+/-). Seems to work without plugging into a ann external power source and can remain in place even during battery use. Idea would be just to extend the life of the battery pack and possibly maintain the health of the pack as well. Thanks for any insights!

I found a write up for the topic in Motor trend. https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/impp-1105-battery-desulfators-fact-fiction/
I would say its a maybe for a car battery but it would take some serious juice to accomplish anything on a deep cycle battery.

John F Dean wrote:While rummaging through a junk shop in Kentucky, I bumped into a retired railroad worker  who said he uses Edison batteries for solar on his homestead. Can anyone tell me what these are?

Nickel iron batteries are long lasting batteries and were really popular about 10 to 20 years. They are known for being long lived but also expensive and burning through large amounts of water. Their popularity has dropped due to high price and how cheap lithium has become. Honestly lifespan was their big draw when they were competing against lead but lithium has a similar lifespan and cheaper.

Tom Moran wrote:Thanks to all for the input.
I’m running lead acid industrial batteries, have a 1/2 go 110 v well pump. Can’t really afford to but 8000$ in new batteries, so I’ll be sticking with 24 volt.
I agree, high frequency units are out for me- I’ll see if an old magnum pae 4024 I have laying around will work ( magnum says “ it’s 10 years old- about their lifetime” - and it didn’t run when I tried it; they indicated that I should hold the reset down for a whole minute to reset, IF it’s resettable. I basically got it free).
I’ll keep looking for a 24 volt low frequency unit. Any recommendations appreciated.

with those specifications the magnum will be tougher than the Schneider based on service calls. I have a 4024 MS dated 2007 still in operation. Magnum is correct try a hard reset see what happens.

Michael Qulek wrote:

David Baillie wrote: I would agree there if the unit will be starting large inductive loads the schneider, magnum or samlex are your best options. If you do go for an all in one you simply oversize it so a 6-8kW all in one would do the trick and still be less than the transformer based units. Another thing to consider is if you will be going with lithium batteries you are supposed to have 2 way communication with the inverter. at this time the schneider does not offer that so if its being inspected with lithium it wont pass...

My 1hp 240VAC Grunfos pump has a measured startup surge of ~9200W, so no, a 6-8kW AiO is very unlikely to start it.  I had this number in hand before I decided to purchase my XW+6848.  This I think points to a serious issue with many solar planners, the ignorance of what the actual demands on the system are likely to be.  Following preliminary research in the design of my own system, I purchased a clamp meter that could read inrush current.  Pricey, but produces numbers a regular meter can not.  I think maybe 80-90% of DIY solar planners really have no clue what electrical demands their property demands, until the "on" switch is flipped.

You gotta read the fine print.  SolArk's 12kW is actually only a 9kW (reading the fine print) and only 7.5kW in real-world testing.  The 6848 was very conservatively rated, and it really should have been called the 8548 (based on real-world testing). SolArk's claim that it can more economically outcompete a 6848 is a blatant lie.  Schneider should have sued them.

Ouch. It was not personal.The 15kW would have been a better choice for your system or paired 12k's. Now,  the OP was looking at the SW which is a 4000 watt rated inverter. The 6-8 kW high frequency would be a good equivalent for THAT inverter. My mistake was replying to your post I should have attached it to the OP post.  I don't know if the DIY designer comment was a dig but I'm assuming it was not.
CHeers,  
DAvid

Michael Qulek wrote:

David Baillie wrote:
It is a good inverter but its getting pretty long in the tooth. It is still in production but is much more expensive then the newer all in one inverters coming out.

One critical issue with the newer, cheaper AiO units, is almost all of them are high-frequency transformerless units with little or no starting surge.  Starting surge is very important in the starting of motors that turn on under load.  Anything driving a motor connected to compressors, pumps, ect.  Your typical HF inverter may say it can surge to 200% wattage, but that lasts only for 8-16 milliseconds.  A LF inverter can surge for 5-60 seconds, far more than the 250-500 milliseconds needed to start a motor.

You really need to match the inverter to the application, and pay attention to parameters other than watts.  Most people never look past W/$ till it's too late, and they pay money for something that shuts down with an alarm when you attempt to turn on something it can't handle.

If all you want to do is run lights and a TV, an AiO is OK.  A big-ticket item like a submersible well-pump will just stop it dead.

Although I still have a 24V system in my workshop, I would agree that 24V is gradually being phased out, and the two remaining standards will be just 12V for small systems, and 48V for large systems.  For long-term whole-home systems, 48V is clearly the way to go.

I would agree there if the unit will be starting large inductive loads the schneider, magnum or samlex are your best options. If you do go for an all in one you simply oversize it so a 6-8kW all in one would do the trick and still be less than the transformer based units. Another thing to consider is if you will be going with lithium batteries you are supposed to have 2 way communication with the inverter. at this time the schneider does not offer that so if its being inspected with lithium it wont pass...

Matthew McElveen wrote:Hello fellow homesteaders,

    My name's Matthew. I'm a framing carpenter and auto/diesel technician, and free-energy enthusiast. It has long-since been apparent that my generation (I'll be 43 in May) would have to seek a different form of "retirement." Building an energy-independent homestead, to me, simply seems like the "best case scenario" concerning safety and/or longevity. With the advent of a Tesla's Powerwall technology, I'm absolutely convinced that the oppportunity is now there. Even with a 1kW/hour return from a single unit, multiple "tiny homes" could be powered (sharing a single "mess hall" unit on the property,) with nothing more than a relatively simple gravity-powered set up. Imagine how we used to power clock towers - hoisting a heavy weight, and using gear reduction to produce rotational torque (that would in turn, spin a small generator/alternator motor.) Depending on the application, what I intend to build as an infrastructure will likely be predominantly DCV, with inverters to provide AC power where it's needed. Between water cisterns and a self-sustaining electrical grid, I do not intend give up any modern technologies for the sake of freedom. I intend to have both.

I enjoy a sober, active lifestyle. At 5'10' and 140lbs., I eat healthy, sleep well, and would like to meet a group of similarly-minded individuals. The simple fact of the matter is, a homestead's odds of success drop dramatically with less than 4-5 people, and as a life-long bachelor, I don't even so much as have a dog at the moment. My odds of succeeding alone are almost non-existent. Turns out that just "chasing work" doesn't really lead a man to much of genuine value in life.  

I'm not looking for "care takers." I'd sincerely like to find a motivated group of people with a wide range of talents and skills. It is not enough for me to simply survive, I intend to thrive (and to return to assisting others to do the same.) I spent a good number of years helping homesteaders out in WNC develop their properties in various aspects. In all my travels, I haven't found another group of people that matched my morals and values as well as theirs did. I was born and raised a Southern Conservative Christian, although I never really considered myself to be a "religious" man. I love freedom, peace, and this country.

Hopefully, someone can help point me in the right direction to potentially find some people that are trying to walk the same path as I am. I look forward to meeting new people.

Welcome to Permies!
I would second the words above and say check out the intentional community world. Also check out any kind of alternative energy, gardening or environmental workshop and get together in your area. Like minded people who want to "DO" are usually out there doing already so you have to go find them where they are.
Cheers and good luck.
David

Tom Moran wrote:I’m looking for a split phase inverter to operate on a 24 volt battery system. Is this a good one?  Many thanks. Tom

It is a good inverter but its getting pretty long in the tooth. It is still in production but is much more expensive then the newer all in one inverters coming out.  If you already have your charge controllers the price does not matter so much but if you are installing an array at the same time you will have to purchase them separately. The new all in ones have the charge controllers built in for less money than the stand alone schneider.  The Samlex or magnum  inverters are off grid inverters which are of equal quality and less money.  If its a deal it worth it but don't pay too much the market is being flooded with used 24 volt  inverters which were expensive when installed and I think are being sold at too high a price used. Unless you cannot rejig your battery bank for 48 volts there is no reason to go 24 volts so the market for 24 volt inverters is shrinking.
Cheers,
David

M Buenijo wrote:I had an interesting conversation with a senior boiler inspector in Texas. It's hard to make sense of boiler codes and other bureaucrat-speak. So, I just called the office. I got shuffled around to higher-ups until I came upon a boiler inspector guru. He told me the primary criteria they use to determine whether to regulate a boiler is size, pressure, and placement. Anything over 15 psig is considered a "power boiler" and subject to inspection, but only if it is placed where members of the general public have access. I explained my system is designed for combined heat and power in remote off the grid settings on private property. He said they don't care about things like this. Furthermore, he expressed personal interest in the system saying he'd love to see it when I'm done! Pretty cool guy I thought.

This is good news. I've have countless people tell me that I shouldn't both developing the system as it is illegal. I course, I wouldn't let this stop me from developing the unit. But it would stop me from selling them. Looks like I don't have to worry about it after all (at least in Texas).

It all depends on location. Here would be the limits in force in Ontario where I live.
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/r01220

John C Daley wrote:Fellas, thanks for the responses.
Unfortunately the injury has slowed me down, I have reduced stamina at the moment and can lose interest sometimes because of mild pain or stiffness.
Travelling also slows me up.
BUT I am confident it will all improve.
Glenn and Rico, I can strengthen the floor as required, I have looked at Hydronic heating I have collected a lot of parts and have a 300 gallon insulated tank in the roof heated by the wood heater and sun.
I have had another look at the Dragon Technology Montana Masonry heaters from Thomas, but need a bit more knowledge.
The Shorty may work for me.
I was wondering about adding normal house bricks around the stove just to see how it goes,
winters here have no snow and can get down to minus 5 deg. C in winter for a few days and cool for weeks.
I often go with no heating but it is tough!

John, what is the state of the insulation in the house? Any way to increase that without tearing everything apart? Attics are responsible for 30 percent of heat loss any chance of beefing that up? Caulking windows and baseboards also offers some gains.  A second thought for me would be with that high ceiling; are you storing heat at the ceiling level? A ceiling fan would certainly help there as well as pushing heat at the wall and floor surfaces which would heat up and store some heat. The stacked bricks is a great way to add mass but don't forget the mass you already have. Often times woodstoves will draw in air through building cracks causing surfaces to cool all while the wall directly against the stove gets far too hot. Forcing air circulation is good to improve that condition.
Cheers,  David