David Baillie

I have not been great at posting systems I've worked on recently. So the current one is a bit of a throwback but still viable and bullet proof. The high frequency all in one inverters have taken over but a component based transformer based system is still bulletproof. One of the issues I had was the newer panels have gotten so big that I had to build myself a hoist to get them up the rack. also with all the new restrictions around batteries and living spaces a shed was constructed to take all the gear.

This system:
Magnum 4448PAE
Midnite solar Classic 150
19.6 kWHrs of AGM battery
4.4kW of solar array
Cummins standby propane generator 13kW

[youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/n0bpxO8o0dM?si=X-uK42103Xp2qMsu[/youtube]

Cheers,  David

Emery Brown wrote:Hiya permies community

I'm on half an acre in a cold climate and have been for a couple years, and while we have solar and split systems our most effective and least energy-consuming source of heat is our wood fire heater.

We have a bunch of trees on the property, some of which drop large branches, take heavy pruning, and a couple which I've cut down to make room for fruit trees. I collect sticks for kindling as we prune and as they drop, and have amassed a variety of sizes of sticks and logs which we store in a large shed in preparation for burning.

As anyone does when they're new to something, I've also come to the realisation that there's a lot I *don't* know. We've stored kindling in loose piles and found rodent poop and dead rodents underneath, and I don't even want to know how many are living in there now. We've also got a bunch of logs that are way too big for the firebox, and despite some attempts with a hatchet have had a world of trouble splitting it. It seems Australian hardwoods are a bit harder to split than what I'm seeing on youtube videos - and maybe I'm doing it wrong.

I've got some questions that I'd love to ask if anyone's willing to explain some things to me:

1. How do you split your wood? Is there a way to do it if you don't have super strength? Is it easier to split when it's new or dried? Is there a cheat way to cut it?
2. How do you store wood so that it doesn't house rodents? We have heaps of space in our shed but not like... a storage system. I'm sure there's an obvious, easy, affordable answer but the best I've seen so far is $200 at our local nursery for a metal ring
3. What would you tell a newbie who is just starting out with their firewood collection and storage? What have you learnt along the way that made your life easier?
4. What sort of trees would you plant for future firewood, in a bushfire prone but cold climate?

Any wisdom is much appreciated

I find a good entry to splitting reluctant logs is a splitting wedge and small sledge hammer. They are an easier tool than a splitting maul, less dangerous and better for stubborn wood. It's what I use for Jack pine and knotty red pine which resist hand splitting with a maul.  The hydraulic splitters are awesome and if you had a lot of woods I''d say for sure but at half an acre best to spend a little more time on manual tools. As to critters in woodpiles that seems to be a universal thing. Hopefully not the poisonous varieties.
Cheers,  David

The important parts for well pumping with an inverter are
1) make sure your pump has a soft start function such as the grundfos listed above.
2) for decades of service stick to the more traditional transformer based inverters ( outback, magnum, Schneider) rather than the less expensive high frequency units currently taking over.
You could run the pump on a dedicated line from a generator and feed a surface tank one every now and then and use a smaller solar driven pump to provide pressure for the house.
Finally have you checked what height the water is at in your well? I have a 280 ft well but static pressure is 40 ft. If I wanted to I could hang a secondary pump at say 60 ft and access 20 ft of water at very low power.
I find the hand pump options very expensive though. A client of mine managed to buy a generator and install a backup power panel for less money than what they wanted for one of the cast iron deep well hamp pumps...

Some things to consider.
Cheers,    David

Teresa Maciel wrote:I need to reset my battery. The horn keeps going off after I had the oil changed. I also can't find a negative or plus. The battery is very dirty. I am 73. I could ask for help but I'd like to understand how this works. Thank you

Teresa, generally you should start by identifying the year and model of the car. Many vehicles have built in alarms that can be reset using odd key turning routines. Sometimes a horn module goes bad leading to intermittent horn honking.  For an oil change nothing like that should have happened unless the company routinely disconnects a battery. So, year and model first then maybe some online research. Nothing wrong with cleaning connection and maybe changing a battery as required as mentioned above.
cheers,  David

John Weiland wrote:

David Baillie wrote:
One question:  Could you please explain the idea behind "...the same panel will generate 20-30 percent more on the ground even without snow."?    Why is this so?  What is it about roof vs ground mounting that would result in such a difference?

To put it very simply when the solar panels are mounted on a roof the generated heat does not dissipate as well as when they have an open back as they do on a ground mount. Then you have the newer panels which can absorb energy from reflected light adding 10 percent yield. Next would be in the snowbelt roof mounted panels at 30 degrees tend to hold snow cutting down production. Finally where I am here you need a structural engineer to evaluate, draw and approve you roof for solar panels and a seperate municipal permit adding costs to the project.
Cheers,  David

Thanks again, David!

So just pushing some numbers on some solar sites, at a location latitude of ~46 degrees north and subtracting 2.5 degrees from this to obtain the 'year-round' best solar angle ( https://www.solartap.com/blogs/solar-101/solar-panel-angle-calculator ) for the panels, that would give me a panel angle of ~43.5 degrees...not far off of a 45 degree slope, which *may* shed snow better than 30 degrees...??  [Our home roof is ~ 45 degrees and is a metal roof....sheds snow well enough to have destroyed our gutters within the first few years of installation :-( , but still can hold some snow under the right conditions.]  I think the quotation from the installer included bracketing that would tilt the upper edges of each panel away from the roof (garage roof being a 4/12 pitch.... ~ 18.4 degrees), so with bi-facial panels may (a) collect extra reflected radiation off of the white roof and (b) reduce panel heating since they would not be flush with the roof itself.  But also to acknowledge that perhaps the "year-round optimum" angle may actually rob a system of *summer optimum*.....the season where you hope to gain as much as possible even if sacrificing some winter watt production.

To clarify, I'm already anticipating possibly going with fewer panels which would provide a bit more open spacing between bracket/panel combinations.  Also to note that I'm personally not averse to ground-mounted panels....it just falls into the category of spousal compromise on location of things on the property.  Your mentioning of permitting also is noted even though we are very rural....we've dealt with the county much on past projects and their arms have a long reach!  Grid tie expense with the rural power coop is running ~$1,200 USD and we are a net metering state (for now!) by law.

Spousal buy is a critical variable that beats peak efficiency every time!!!  It sound like you have all your ducks lined up. I would council against extra spacing on the panels as any gain you might achieve on overheating would be negated by the creation of more crevices and bumps to allow the snow to hold. I have thought that if I do a roof mount for someone again I would employ something like this: https://www.greenbuildermedia.com/blog/remote-control-snow-melting-for-rooftop-solar
Basically heat wire under the panels to create a melt layer that would slide off. It might work great for your 45 degree angle.
CHeers, and good luck
David

One question:  Could you please explain the idea behind "...the same panel will generate 20-30 percent more on the ground even without snow."?    Why is this so?  What is it about roof vs ground mounting that would result in such a difference?

To put it very simply when the solar panels are mounted on a roof the generated heat does not dissipate as well as when they have an open back as they do on a ground mount. Then you have the newer panels which can absorb energy from reflected light adding 10 percent yield. Next would be in the snowbelt roof mounted panels at 30 degrees tend to hold snow cutting down production. Finally where I am here you need a structural engineer to evaluate, draw and approve you roof for solar panels and a seperate municipal permit adding costs to the project.
Cheers,  David

Mike Barkley wrote:I know what I would do in that situation. Disconnect from the grid &/or block the panels from receiving light when I didn't need the power. They can take their new taxes & ... well, you know the rest.

most of the name brand equipment is already able to divert the solar to either charge batteries or any other load such as a water heater or a dedicated air conditioner. The era of the grid tied system without batteries is drawing to a close.

John Weiland wrote:Thanks for all responses, insights, and recommendations here.

I agree that 'stop-loss' measures will be the first to implement.  As we are getting older and the equation of r.o.i. becomes more of a factor with limited time remaining (20-25 years?), a prioritized insulation programs seems to be the best way to go.

Spring, Summer, and Fall months really are not so much of an issue.  Sure, the heat in the main garage where the chest freezers are kept gets too warm and makes them work harder than they need to, but that pales in comparison to the winter heating woes in the one building that needs the most insulation.  So that is where the focus will go.  I'm really not sure how to relate the difficulty of the core 2 months of winter with regard to passive solar.  With the frost depth at a reliable 4-5 feet deep and the short-day, low intensity of the sun just south of the Canadian border, I liken it to an ice-box where heat retention will be short lived.  As noted, the larger barn is well-insulated and probably takes less heating to bring it into a comfort zone, after which it returns to the 30s-40s F for the remainder of the day/night.  No hot water is required in these buildings and a single water hydrant (plumbed below the frost-line) is the source for water for drinking and food prep for the animals.  For sure I will be looking into infrared overhead heat lamps as a supplement where wife preps food.....had just started to try these out a few years back in a larger 40 X 80 ft quonset before that collapsed from snow-load.  [The insulated barn was its replacement building.]

The face of the small food prep building that faces south is about 6 ft tall X 20 ft long.  After it was installed, it could be quite cozy in there during bright sunny days, even when around 0F outside and even during short days.  The *appearance* at least is that we don't seem to have as many bright sunny days in December-February as we once did.  Additionally, over time, the south wall, comprised of twin-wall polycarbonate greenhouse window glazing, has become cracked and frost heaving has caused many gaps and cracks to form along seams of the structure.  Clearly, addressing all of this in a thorough way is a major part of the project.  ,For those in similar latitudes and peak sun hours in winter ..... *and* length of non-sun periods with temps around 0F (~ -17C)...is a thermal battery even practical under these circumstances?

A layout of the buildings and production estimate (PV solar) from one provider for our location is shown.  The latter was done with matching our *current* usage in mind and I'm hoping reductions on our end could then reduce the need for the number of panels and size of the system.  One last question I will just throw out refers to wind power as we are in a moderate to high wind region, yet our property with trees and buildings would require an 80' tower minimum to avoid turbulence.  It seems that the superiority of horizontal wind turbine for power efficiency is no longer contested (???) but that the superiority of vertical axis wind turbines for withstanding turbulent winds remains agreed-upon.  Would adding lower-altitude, vertical axis wind-based electrical production make any sense in a high-wind, high-turbulence environment as a supplement to the solar deficit that occurs in winter?  Although a downward trend in wind speed has been recorded in the region since the 1950s, monthly averages are still around 12 mph with July/August being the least windy (and still solar strong) while March/April being the windiest.

Finally, with our abundance of free wood on the property, wood heating (as we do for much of our home heating) would seem to be a no brainer.  But here is where the age issue comes in and is one more thing that wife does not want to have to deal with along with the 4 hrs of animal feeding each night, 365 days/year in her advanced age.  So with the years remaining, we are looking to make do with what is available and as low energy footprint as possible.  Thanks again for all comments especially has they reflect so much experience already in these areas and dealing with similar issues.

John,
It sounds like you have the rough plan figured out.  A few thoughts as I read through it all
As influenced as I was with all the passive solar and thermal mass books I read from the 70's and 80's thermal mass and solar thermal simply have not panned out in our climate. Works great in higher altitude cold winter/sunny days areas but here with our 6-12 weeks of grey cold, lake effect snow its a non starter.  I totally agree that we seem to be getting more less cold but cloudy winter days than in years gone past. Insulation has proven to be the best bang for the buck... I could see someone on site suggesting a rocket mass heater/food prep bench which you fire up when you prep and coast til the next session not a lot of work tending, lots of residual heat.  Solar electric if you can net meter is a great way to sock away the summer sun when you get there especially since solar panels are running at $0.40 a watt these days.  I would suggest you try to find a ground mounted spot for the array as the combination of removing snow and advancing age is not a great mix and the same panel will generate 20-30 percent more on the ground even without snow. Wind is an interesting beast and localized. I have not sized or sold a wind turbine since the cost of panels dropped from $5 a watt to their current lows. The tower costs kill you. Its the same economics that killed solar thermal.  As for the vertical turbines I've yet to see a commercial unit go up and post any production numbers. I could see them doing well on a windswept pasture with wind funneling on them but as soon as you throw any obstructions anywhere close the results would fall apart.  Just some thoughts. Don't get me wrong I love all of the above listed energy technologies but I'm in the position of usually having to cost these out for people so it makes me more pragmatic then most.
cheers,  David

John Weiland wrote:As the title indicates, some planning with a local solar PV installer necessitated getting estimates on current, grid-supplied electrical power consumption.  The 'bare all' graph below speaks for itself....huge consumption in the winter months and some plateauing during the summer.  The large power hogs: 2 X 7 kW electrical garage heaters that are both on a few hours each night for wife's animal feeding chores, an 80 gal. standard (20 yrs old?) electric hot water heater in a poorly insulated basement, and an electric stove/range.  One standard ~20 year old fridge/freezer in the kitchen and toaster/air fryer/microwave all participating in the feeding frenzy, but for short periods.  Significant summer draws are from the kitchen fridge as well as 4 chest freezers in a pretty warm (summer....uninsulated) garage.

So the potential installer noted that he sized the quoted system for 10 kW based on an average annual ~14000 kWh consumption.....and that we could do much to shave off the size of the system if we could flatten out our graph below during the winter months.  This brought up the idea of leaving the garage heaters off for the most part if we were to add air-sourced heat pumps in those animal buildings.  He offered that the technology has improved significantly and I recall a different thread here about heat pumps reflecting those advances.  So here I'd just like to ask for those in winter climates with regular evening temperatures dipping below zero F, if you have a newer heat pump, has it performed 'well enough' down around or below zero?  We'd be happy enough just to use the older 7 kW heaters on nights that are around -20F or lower if the bulk of the days/nights are warmed by the heat pumps.  Second related question pertains to replacing the older electric hot water heater with a heat pump water heater.  They seem to have decent reviews and appear to have a similar lifespan (?) while drawing less power.  Would be grateful for comments about these water heaters from those who have used them in the past few years.  The result would be possibly re-configuring the solar PV system a bit smaller....sort of like buying those tight jeans so that you *must* lose the weight to fit into them! :-)   There are some sizable rebates and tax incentives in the U.S. for installing some of these heat pump technologies now as well.  Thanks!....

HI John, I attached my heat pump consumption for our 2600 square ft home for the last 18 months. Heated to 21 degrees celcius and cooled to the same year round.  Most of it has been mentioned above. Insulate rather then generate is a good catch phrase. We used to call then "negawatts" in the energy geek world. The idea is to rethink you setup, maximize its efficiency THEN figure out consumption.  Heat pumps are a great technology but they work best maintaining a steady state especially in the winter. As the temperature difference between out and in increases they are less and less able to apply quick changes in heat. In your case sporadic increases in temp in a uninsulated structure would be a bad application for them.  I would go infrared above head lamp for warming the person not the structure or workbench focused concentrated heat or heated clothing.
Cheers,   David  

Riley Summerton wrote:Can I connect this to the solar pannels? Can I use the energy right away?

https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Generator-Controller-Windward-Direction/dp/B09C69NM77/ref=mp_s_a_1_20?crid=22RAIG2BUO6CT&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.KLHNacnFzB5MIznpbOXj5E3YszV1PDv7IyR0sd30GRalmR3rjm1DZhqb6VE-85LPt6nT8IV6QgnIFvQ1-GdXpeIzGQQjIjaowhPVHGbp5hXVeNaJpsTP8RsbItvTauI-08Oo22ut8MgWVJdao7uktW8RavQA4vzUuc7vJ8ES-hrV87rDrPLEidktht0ou1idpNOhJvfgoC8nRMIjOs2tQQ.h5pMnObEIdqZS4n3g-4iqAecXNXIHdi4PTqKQMTe--Y&dib_tag=se&keywords=wind+turbine+rv&qid=1717813413&sprefix=wind+turbine+rv%2Caps%2C188&sr=8-20


If I buy this kit, can I connect other solar pannels to it?

https://www.amazon.com/ECO-WORTHY-Solar-Battery-Trailer-Garden/dp/B09RZJS1ZS/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=1S1A50ASGQF7F&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.nEUD98cjTqViGQVVf8qktXRqTGLZhEna16JqXBKh7PP84SDH07B-p1tJx-ZzB2uB5-0jmI6wpNH_OFKGKEXFvTdajbeKVdeGQkG7snpmb0zmH_jGbSa6F0ZftXD7eRm9EfBjjrL4LZl0hLPDCglFe-h4jO7PoHKoXB2ozrdSXfv3QoPTh-OvTo3V6i3pxopYiReIpvNbWqfn-oxF7LUN8Q.bouUeHIKaGbWDElVtdgSf3P3OPblUClLJkAhK3mX1II&dib_tag=se&keywords=solar+panel+kit&qid=1717813638&sprefix=solar+panel+kit%2Caps%2C190&sr=8-3

Is it better to buy something more expensive for better quality, or with inflation is it not actually better quality?

Would it be cheaper or better quality if I buy the supplies separately from the panels/turbine?

Anyone have product recommendations? I'd like to get solar and a wind Turbine this week for less than 300. I'm doing it for both emergency preparedness and to prep for  off grid living in the future.

A review of the solar kit looks like it runs into the con of solar kits not matching well as described in this site:
https://rvwiki.mousetrap.net/doku.php?id=electrical:solar:gentle_intro

For every 12 volt panel out there being sold there is at least 20 higher voltage panels produced. This makes the cost per watt much higher for 12 volt panels. It does not matter if you are only ever going to hook up one or 2 12 volt panels but if you want to grow the array you should invest from the start in a Mppt charge controller. I have used this one as an entry level unit.  https://www.amazon.com/EPEVER-Controller-Lead-Acid-Batteries-Discharging/dp/B0811F75H3/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=1ZVJYKIT40SL5&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1cFRLoNJjsb3ctbeZzZAidYVvgixfE0PlzTBljByzClxwhpIy9BJaACRnMPA_GnwagYA8_a3mWYoPCSESMxSuTGKOpIbAu0H66GIpoUeyQPUkR8Mf35uhZjNWvPtAtGJOr1w2j3kHDm5_hd9DQ0qp1mkkAtPMdlPxwsgGdNHGy8RxlYxtcpLfGkHS-x50WpRb2vOYY9MsDa5ttoqlTgYJQI6p6rVHbiOpFKBtm7AXu0.qgb92AdPzvfe3oGbQZyvVEuV4JjHzOP1tUg6fCwEKmc&dib_tag=se&keywords=epever%2Bcharge%2Bcontroller&qid=1718025834&sprefix=epever%2Bcharge%2Bcontroller%2Caps%2C138&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1
this will allow you to do a single panel, grow to up to 30 amps worth (360 watts) either as 3 of the expenseive per watt 100 watt panels or the larger utility panels and switch to a 24 volt system if desired down the road. For small wind  that looks like not a bad option but a single utility solar panel will outperform that wind turbine in all but the best wind locations at one third of the cost.
Enjoy the journey...
Cheers, David