David Baillie

Eric Rothoff wrote:I am wondering if anyone compared thermal verses electric solar. I read a few articles claiming electric is now better(cheaper.) I heat with hot water, and I can build a thermal solar system compared to buying the panels and building an electric system. Either way I would be installing and assembling the system. What are peoples recent experiences?

Eric, as a longtime solar guy I will just say it depends. Here are some rough numbers for you. Approx 20-23 percent of the light hitting a solar electric panel is transformed to electricity. When you are using manufactured evacuated tube heated water system you will transform 80-90 percent of the light to heat. It seems light an easy comparison right? It gets complicated though. To get that high conversion for solar thermal you need to be the type of person who can trouble shoot plumbing, pumps, thermostats, holding tanks, vapor locked runs, failing mechanical valves, etc so all that efficiency comes at a cost. Then there is the financial. Retail solar panels are going for 30-50 cents per watt whereas the cost of solar thermal arrays have not changed much in the last 2 decades. Then you have the issue with all you get from the solar thermal array is heat which is considered a low end energy versus electricity which is very flexible. Add in the recent gains in heat pump technologies which give you a 3 to one gain in heat generation over simple resistance heaters and you have efficiencies that are virtually identical... One is more high tech, one is more prone to requiring maintenance. I have not fielded any inquiries about solar thermal in 5 years which corresponds with better heat pumps and the drop in solar electric panel prices.
Cheers,  David

thomas rubino wrote:I still need to install inline fuses, but for now, my new system is up and running!
The Victron app loaded easily on my phone( after Liz showed me how)
Unfortunately, the Bluetooth range is limited, so I will have to enter the barn to monitor battery condition.
It is really cool to see live input from the solar panels.
You can bet that I will be out in the barn at dusk this evening to see when I lose charging and again at daybreak tomorrow to see how early the charging starts!

Thomas, I still remember when I transferred over the same 12 volt panels from my trace 60 amp PWM charge controller to an Outback 60amp MPPT 18 years ago; it was a transformation. You will see, its not so much the gains you get on good days its how it can still pull watts from the panels on the crummy days, earlier in the day and later into the evening. That unit is still doing work to this day on the garage system.
Cheers,
David

thomas rubino wrote:Hi all;
I  bought four 150-watt 12V panels to run my 12V chest freezers.   https://permies.com/t/216684/newest-volt-deep-freezer
For the last 5 years, they have been leaning against the wall in my shop.
Today they are in the sun for the first time!
I didn't have time to finish the wiring to the new MPPT charge control today, but I've got 77 open circuit volts at the wires!

I wired the panels in series, increasing the voltage output to a working level of 48 volts, but the amperage output remains at 8.2 amps.
My new Victron MPPT charge control will use that 48 volts to charge my 12-volt battery bank.

I use two six-volt deep-cycle batteries to run my two 12-volt chest freezers.
I have been charging them with a trickle charger that is plugged into our house's power system.
I finally decided it was time to step up my game and give them their own power system.

Tomorrow I will finish the hookup and disconnect the trickle charger for good.

Looks great Thomas! glad you went with the Victron

Ben Mosley wrote:I saw this video and got inspiration from it. Unfortunately, I am to old and broken to persue it. I believe that this could be a viable option for those in this community. I think this should be spread, especially in areas where homesteaders are building communities. This could be scaled up, if the community can come together and work together. Maybe I'm just an old fool.

I remember being fascinated by the Jean Pain story and the idea of the large biomass pile. The video actually lays out pretty well the problems you run into. Some of the issues i found that kept me from going for it:
Size: it does not scale down well so was more suitable for a community or large greenhouse complex or something similar.
Equipment: it requires a chipper shredder to get the mass at the right size so it breaks down at the right pace to allows oxygen into the pile to allow break down and heat release..
Climate: Jean Pain's work was in southern france so his need for winter heat was minimal, the pile would probably not freeze in my climate but the rate of decomposition would slow to a crawl in winter
Labour: It is extremely labour intensive for the quality of energy you get from it. I figured a day of labour making firewood would be the equivalent of 5 or 6 days of work on the pile.
Technology change: Very cheap solar panels provide far more electricity than the pile could provide, technological developments like an RMH can produce massive more amounts of heat from the small wood feedstock with much less labour input using far less machinery.
Possible environmental problems: in the 1980's I read reports of leeching into the soil of concentrates which would affect groundwater similar to what a manure pile produces.  My own concern was you are creating basically a self contained bog which releases vast amount of CO2 and Methane far in excess of what smaller distributed piles would release. You are tapping the surplus heat but at what cost? All that said I always wanted to build one to experiment.
Its a great idea especially  an end product of large amount of compost.  My take was I was better burning the larger wood that would have been chipped for heat, composting the green mass from the tops of the trees, using solar to replace the methane he was burning in a generator for lights. Same idea; energy independance, different tech, less labour. Different answers for different regions.
Cheers,
David

Rico Loma wrote:Much obliged David, my   Luddite tendencies are not helpful at times like these, and you've saved me from myself.  Charging  tool batteries is my main focus,   but i will attempt to charge a second 12v battery also.  My small charger is rated for 120 to 240 volts and draws 35 watts, I used that yesterday for a one hour test run.  

 However I could charge with the DC output if that is copacetic. Will both methods be safe for the Ecoflow,  or should I stay with  using AC output for this?

I have not used that particular model but the specs on lines says there is a solar charge controller built in so charging with solar is possible. As to better ... That would depend on what works best for you.

Rico Loma wrote:Solar generator ads pop up more often these days,with big ideas and a few promises. I hesitate , not sure if Ecoflow River3 units are a good idea for projects far from our home. A kind fellow I know was determined to give me Ecoflow  set up w 45w folding travel panel, and after a moment I relented

DC power  output is via USB and usbC, also theres an automotive cigar lighter socket. 2 AC outlets are provided.

 The input can be with solar or 120v cable for indoor charging. I include some specs below.  Not a champion in its field by any means, but the portability is a fantastic feature.  This could be great for some projects far afield, without taking my heavy generator.  Paltry battery storage on this River3 though, and i need a plan to have more . Advice from anyone will be welcomed.  

One reputable buddy advised me to use a 100w panel as a minimal upgrade, and he believes the River has charge controller/ inverter built in. So please folks,any opinions to the contrary in Permie land?  And one more query:  should I charge a 12v battery or similar from the River during sunny hours ? I have a cable for this already, to connect to my Using the unit for a remote project, far from the mudding crowd, I need it for mostly 18v tool batteries and occasional AC necessities .  As it stands, I can't work on my forest project more than 3 hours on a cloudy day before my integrated battery gets very sad

Much obliged for any advice, on the input and output
Rico

It has a pure sine inverter so you can use it to charge up cordless tools but it's only 300 watts so no plug in power tools just smaller stuff. It has a charge controller but only for 12 volt panels so your typical 100 watt (18 volt, 5.6 amp ish) panel from the hardware/ big box store should work fine... You might need to buy a custom cord to plug the panel in or it might be a provided accessory. Battery is a little small but fine for charging devices and cordless power tools.

We're in central Texas latitude 30. The roof is pitched at 18° so the modules could be pitched up some for optimum performance although our primary energy need is during the summer and shoulder seasons. I'd much prefer to do a ground mount array but it would require some pretty significant clearing to create a good location. I haven used bifacials before. That's good to know about their limited benefit on roof mounted systems. Dual mppt sounds great. It seems like I got my current system right on the cusp of a great advancement in consumer solar equipment. My 5-6 year old solar modules, charger controller, combiner box and flooded lead acid battery bank feel extremely antiquated.  

I would say you hit the nail on the head. The new generation of all in one inverters have taken over from the more traditional transformer based units. Along with multi charge controllers for different producing strings you also get code approved 2 way communication with the new lithium battery packs. Lithium is a game changer as well as you can get full array production since they have low resistance to charging unlike lead and you don't waste time at the high voltage low amperage low production absorb stage. It has forced solar designers to change their ways as we now maximize panel numbers due to low panel costs as our first priority. On the down side you are usually best to repanel completely so you can maximize your strings and the all in one inverters are terrible at lead acid charging as they lack a proper 3 stage charging profile. The EG 4 mentioned above is a rebadged lux inverter, LUX being  my prefered inverter these days. Solark is another name to check out. Being in Ontario I am forced to comply with UL9540 which is rules around 2 way communication between battery and inverter so not all brands of batteries will qualify. These days I am installing Pytes batteries.  Its a brave new world. I fully agree that your first step should be aggressive trimming. Also mentioned was bifacial panels... They would be of no real benefit to you on a roof as they can catch no reflection on the back side.
Cheers,  David

Crinstam Camp wrote:Those are exactly what I was looking for to start with. Why would you prefer crimp on ones over reusable ones?

torqued on ones did not pass inspection here (ontario) but that is up to interpretation the theory was that a fine braided cable being torqued in could come loose or not engage the whole cable. Try to find the copper ones if possible. digikey has them, grainger will order them in. I use the bigger ones for 4/00 cables going into the Lux 10 and 12K inverters.

Crinstam Camp wrote:

James Alun wrote:

You could run 4g for most of the run and crimp a ring connector onto it. For the last couple of inches, take the largest wire that will fit in the charge controller, crimp a ring terminal on to it, bolt them together and cover in heatshrink.

Can you show me a picture of what you mean by a ring connector?

Would wrapping the 10g wire around the 4g end and putting a couple of hose clamps on it work?

I like using something like this for bigger wires to smaller connection pins usually I use the crimp on variety though:
https://www.amazon.ca/Conext-Link-GAD48-Gauge-Reducer/dp/B01K1INH82/ref=sr_1_6?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.gvTMlSgZN4lPRo5hl2o6_Gg1cLyTdMg3uayH9n8yB0nZWqc9x9UDAMOCHun9WGYUss0w0HNCW7EPfx7ruihm4M3Yd7QYpJXeQOicOfWEL5wVAlL6ApPOCDSp4FpqjNrmxDISenCcQ6pA9osmzIzrEcQlRbI4N2gRxXXwjoaGOFHYxVGlqn-TbvEXIjrRnBSohMpb60Xq584qoyTofxyNrcT1G3-HufHDFKQL4ocevCkjZBuF9Cr6Gc4YFXryHBFj5khVcdt23K-h1jLcQE__xq5m52DyHeSO9tCuK8GkA-U.F90rhhRMw-VrCCWQBG0LDNToIejcsuTnRdF2cxJe4G4&dib_tag=se&keywords=crimp+on+wire+reducer+terminal+4&qid=1753298231&sr=8-6