Edward Murphy

David Livingston wrote:Here are the byodynamic standards including milk.

Thank you sir.

I don't know enough about Steiner to comment on the issues you raised.  I just know that some of the stuff he says about farming sounds pretty good to me.  

R Ranson wrote:For me, I prefer goats as farm animals, not just because of their size, but because they don't escape much.  My goats can get out of their pasture if they are unhappy, but they choose to stay in it for some reason.

Yes, interesting.  I would be curious to know how big a space your goats have, what breed, and how many.  Sounds like happy ladies.

I've heard this about other ruminants - that as long as they have good food and feel safe, they have no reason to jump over low fences, a lot of the time, depending on what kind of animals it is.

(edited for brevity and to stay on topic)

Casie Becker wrote:If I understand it correctly, some cattle produce proteins like those in goat and human milk that are easily digested.

Thanks for the link Casie; I'll take a careful look at that.

Yes, I used to drink raw Jersey milk, rather than Holstein.  If I got my own cow someday, I was thinking that Dexter cows seemed interesting.  More recently I've confined myself to goat milk products.  Just trying to understand what all my options are...

Kelly Smith wrote:i have never heard the term "biodynamic milk".

Yeah, me neither, and that's part of my problem here with finding evidence for this theory.

Kelly Smith wrote:i know that a lot of people who have problems with processed milk do MUCH better on raw milk.

Yes, thanks for the reminder, I have access to raw cow milk in the store here where I live, so I'll definitely try that again.

Kelly Smith wrote:one flick of the head can end very badly for anyone near a horned cow.

Yep!

P.S.  Sepp Holzer is another one of my recent heroes, from the reading I've been doing lately, and I think I see horns on the cows in the photos in his books.  So... interesting.

R Ranson wrote:I'm curious to learn more about biodynamic.  I didn't realize it also included animals.  I thought it was just plants.  Very interesting.  

Yes, apparently animals are considered essential to a biodynamic farm.  Partly because the manure is considered to be good fertilizer.  It might also be partly because Steiner felt that dairy products were good for some people to consume, and his idea of a farm is that it's nice when it's mostly self-sufficient - whatever you need to consume on the farm, it's nice if the farm itself produces all of that.

As far as belligerant animals... yes, that's definitely a big factor I'm sure, with horns, etc.  Well... I used to do martial arts, including a sword class, and one thing I noticed is that when you have a room full of people swinging wooden swords around, one possible outcome is that eveyone really PAYS ATTENTION to what they are doing, the "mindfulness" increases, and nobody gets hurt.  Another possible outcome of course is serious injury.  Which is something I almost witnessed once.

Yes, interesting comments so far, thank you everyone!

Su Ba wrote:I can't see how removing a cow's horns would change the chemical composition of the milk it produces.

Well, the theory is that horns are not there just as an accident, or to fight off predators, but they also serve other functions in the cow's physiology.  It's like if we took pregnant human mothers, and did something unpleasant to their bodies - would they (and their milk) be affected by it in ways that might not be obvious to most of us modern people?  Hard to say, speaking personally.

Anyway I certainly do not mean to insult anyone with hornless cows or start a debate.  I really just want to stealthily track down a bit of concrete evidence to help me evaluate if I can consume dairy products if I get a horned cow someday.  Actually, people should feel free to respond by private message if this is some sort of controversial topic or something.  I'm new to all this.  

Someday I'd like to have a homestead with a cow or a couple of goats - partly because dairy products seem to be important in my diet.  I'm thinking that a cow might be more chill to look after than a goat (less of an escape artist), and I like what Rudolf Steiner says about cows.

Trouble is, I really don't do well with cow milk that I get from the store - pasteurized organic cow milk.  And I'm following a diet that says goat milk = okay but cow milk = bad.

I've heard a theory that biodynamic milk - meaning, from cows that still have their horns on them - often causes no problems for people who don't do well with what we modern people call "regular milk".  What I would like is either to a) test this theory for myself (but I don't know how I would do this), or b) hear from actual people who have tried biodynamic milk, hear from people who had milk sensitivities and find out whether they had any problem drinking milk from cows with horns?

I've tried raw milk in the past, but I can't remember if it was absolutely trouble free for me or not.  And I'm curious about the cow horn factor - some people say removing the horns affects the chemical properties of the milk.

Thanks in advance for any comments or personal testimonies, really appreciate it!