Aldo Caldo

Tj Jefferson wrote:Stropharia is definitely hard to get before the bugs. Here they must be picked barely past button stage if you want any, the slugs are voracious. If you leave them longer then the fungus gnats are all over them. I am having fewer problems now that the toads are out. I would recommend a pile of stones for toad habitat in any mushroom patch, it seems to make a difference. I also dug an ephemeral pond near the patches to create habitat. We shall see...

I think the horticultural mesh I have used is actually quite effective at keeping most things out, the diameter is small enough to stop insects as tiny as carrot flies and fruit flies, so definitely impenetrable to slugs.
It does let air, light and water through, while retaining humidity. Watering over it will cause the water to pool and seep down as drops, so somethat similar to rain.
All the damage was done before I covered the patch, and the new mushrooms seem to be growing with no damage.

Obviously it is not very pretty, and I am not terribly fond of using plastic materials, unless I am recycling them , but apparently it does last several seasons.
One drawback is that, in order for it to seal the patch effectively, it needs to be pinned down every few inches, which makes it opening it and closing it back quite time consuming, and requires dozens of pins.
Also, it is relatively expensive, unless bough in bulk.
I needed quite a lot of fruit cages and mushrooms beds, so I ordered a lot directly from China, which worked out reasonably cheap, provided it does last me several seasons.

Well done Eric, I am glad your patches are producing!

Following some heavy rain, mine have proved to be productive, but unfortunately my assumption was correct.. The reason why I did not see any mushrooms was pests competition..

This time I caught them kind of on time, when the mushroom were still inch-size, and covered the whole thing with some really fine horticultural netting secured with 40 or so pegs.
Unfortunately, the damage done to the small mushrooms was quite massive already, so they have grown considerably but with plenty of holes.
I should have dug some barriers in advance, but when I realized that the mycelia had colonized the soil well beyond the patch, I felt bad digging through it, but I cannot be helped, if I want to see some mushrooms.

Tomorrow I will collect these, and cut away the part which have been bitten.
Hopefully, with some cooking , they will be safe to eat..





Out of desperation I made a fruiting chamber in the garden for my shiitake and oyster, sticking in a bunch of wet perlite AND a cheap battery powered humidifier :D
At least that works, I might add an air intake with a fan powered at regular intervals and see how it fares..





Good luck with your next projects!

Eric Hanson wrote:My thoughts for you is that it may not be too late for you to do something about the soil/chip contact.  I was told not to till or mix soil and chips together, but that digging the fertile holes might give a bit more surface area to work with without having soil mixed everywhere throughout the bed.  Perhaps you could dig a couple of fertile holes?  I planted tomatoes partly because I thought that they would provide the dappled sunlight that wine caps seem to like best.  Maybe you could gently dig a couple of small fertile holes and plant in them?  It is your bed, so you do what you think is best, but maybe this is an avenue you could explore.

I wish you the best of luck on your project.  It would also be interesting to see how your project advances so please keep us up to date.  I am learning this too, so I would love to see things that you got right that I got wrong.

Thanks Eric!

That is an interesting idea.
I might give it a go, however probably with plants other than tomatoes, given the area is a bit too shady in Summer, on account of the cordon apple tree just above .
Courgettes did well just a few feets away though, and a self-pollinating variety could actually do well even if inside the cage I am planning to encase the whole bed in.

However, I need to think about it.
Fitting plants in might require making a cage way taller than I planned, unless of course I stick to rocket, radish, carrots and other small species.
Also, given the proximity of an apple tree, a large blackberry bush and some very vigorous climber, the soil is likely to be packed with roots.
If I were to try, it would be ring colture style, with a full bottomless pot stuck into the mycelia. In any case I was planning to remove some of the mycelia and break it down to spawn a few smaller beds in other locations.

For the moment, I ordered some fine horticoltural netting, which  will cut down light a fraction, retain humidity a bit more and, more importantly, prevent any slug, insect or mammal to enjoy my mushrooms, if that is actually one of the issues.

Let's see how it goes.
We tried our first Shiitake yesterday, with pasta and in a soup (the stem seems to work well in soups).
It was quite nice actually and my wife asked me to grow more, so, at last, a success :)

Thanks for writing such a detailed answer, Eric, much appreciated!

While it is a pleasant thought, I am not sure whether me going for multiple species is indicative of guts and determination :)
In truth, given I was anyway buying woodchips in bulk, I tried to cover as many bases as possible in the hope that at least one thing worked out.
Actually, even with my first attempt at gardening last year, I started thinking strawberries and tomatoes, and ended up trying all kind of stuff for the same reason.

You make some very good points.

Contact with soil
This could be a problem.
I prepared both beds with cardboard as the first layer, and one was just over weeds and grass, so another layer between the mycelia and the soil.

Not enough Fungi or too much substrate
I did over spawn, so probably that was not the issue. Compared to the other species, the Stropharia colonized very fast, within 6 weeks (it was a very warm summer).
As a comparison, I used the same amount of spawn you did, but my substrate volume was a quarter (6 square meters and 15cm deep, so half the are and half the depth).
However, as you point out, in order for the colony to produce mushrooms resources must be low.
Admittedly, only now the beds have reduced visibly in depth and to an extent size, so perhaps last year there was still lots of woodchips to consume.

Not enough time
Certainly possible. However Stropharia is fast compared to most strains, and one bed did produce a very good looking mushroom in in autumn, which fell immediately pray to animals.
So, tecnically it seems that the conditions for fruiting were there to an extent already.

Not enough bacteria
That is a very good point. I was not aware of the fact that bacteria colonies can help Stropharia.
Thing is, when I prepared my woodchips I unwittingly performed what some call "cold pasteurization" (not the high pressure variety).
Because of other commitments, I left the woodchips soak for longer than expected (over 5 days in very warm weather).
I understand that this causes aerobic bacteria to die, followed by the anaerobic bacteria when chips are left to dry for some time.
Not quite as efficient as boiling the woodchips, but it does indeed curb down microbial activity.
So, it is possible that by doign so I killed off useful strains of bacteria.

You mention that it is possible to supplement bacteria colonies. Any tips on how to do so?

Light exposure
This is an interesting one.
From what I read before preparing the beds, Stropharia is one type of mushroom which is relatively tolerant of light.
Because of that, I  saved the back of the garden , which really never see direct light, for pioppino and King Oyster.
The Stropharia went under a cordon apple, which in summer provides good shadow and filtered light only, but in Winter and spring is bare.
The other bed is in a corner, wedged between a tall fence, a tall bush and a trampoline.
That spot is generally quite dark, but it does get direct sunlight at noon.

So, it is possible that too much light is the issue.
Confusingly, I just read somewhere that light exposure is truly an issue because it reduces humidity. I need to research this fact more, as I was under the impression that light in itself was damaging to mycelium strains.

Plus, I think squirrels and perhaps rats and slugs are definitely after my mushrooms. A large patch of wild mushrooms which appeared not long ago was eaten up within days.

In conclusion:
There is probably nothing I can do about soil contact I think, beyond perhaps making other beds with no cardboard lining.
I could research how to supplement bacteria colonies, if not too expensive and time consuming.

However, I could tackle both pests and light exposure/humidity by building cages over the beds, lining the top with horticultural fleece or other materials which stops light but let rain and air in.
I will give that a go.

Done that with the existing beds and a few new ones, to be inoculated with the remains of my new oyster kits, I might buy a few cubic meters of woodchips and perhaps make another caged bed for Stropharia just under the trampoline, a spot which is definitely quite dark, humid and easy to protect.

Again, thanks for your help Eric.
It got me thinking and I feel a bit less lost :)

Hi everybody!

I live in London (UK) and we have a little rented garden.
Last summer I got into gardening and, among others things, I mulched much of the garden with hardwood chips and tried my hand at growing several types of mushrooms in beds and bags.
With very limited success, I should add.
This year I am giving it another go, but with a few kits and bags of straws instead, in the hope to do a bit better.

I have been lurking on this forum quite often over the last year, to try and figure out what I did wrong.
I was hoping to describe what I did with various species and ask a  few questions in the hope someone can clarify things for me.
Apologies if my post will end up being too long by forum standards. If it is better form not to bunch up too many questions together, please let me know and I will repost as several posts.

King Stropharia
I inoculated with spawn more than 6 sq meters of soaked woodchips last summer, and it worked very well, in that within a few months the beds had turned into a solid mass of white spawn just under the surface.
However, I only saw one mushroom in Autumn! And that was very good looking but half eaten already by some pest.
I think gray squirrels, but perhaps rats or slugs, might be the culprit.
I am about to make some cages around the beds, with wooden sides and liftable lids covered in netting or perhaps horticultural fleece, which should prevent even slugs, but not rain, to get in.
Then I will replenish the woodchips and hope for the best.

 

Question: is there any way to encourage Stropharia in beds to fruit?
I was thinking of watering it, but then, it has rained quite a lot over the last months, I checked often and, while it is a huge block of white spawn under the surface, I spotted no mushrooms at all..
Perhaps I should cover it the area with a taurpaline?

King Oyster and Pioppino
I inoculated several square meters in the back of the garden, which is extremely shady and way to dark for any vegetables to grow.
Again, I used hardwood chips (soaked for several days before hand), and covered the bottom with cardboard.
No luck at all.. The spawn seem to work for a while, I kept it wet, but then just died out.
The only patch which seemed to develop was covered by some boards.

Question: do King Oyster beds need to be covered for the spawn to take over?
I followed the instructions for the spawn (3kg every 1,5 square meter) but perhaps is it better practise to inoculate a large post of woodchips, let it turn into a giant amoutn fo spawn and then inoculate the bed with that?

Shiitake
Here, given the previous failures, I took no chances.
I boiled the woodchips in small batches on my stove (making a giant mess of the kitchen and seriously endangering my marriage in the process, but anywyay).
Then I put it in several unicorn bags with fine filters, and experimented with 100% woodchips, but also 30% spent ground coffee, 50% ground coffee, and also 30% straws.
They all took forever to develop.
In the end, I put the bags in my shelter in the garden over the winter, well covered and protected from light, and only now some turned into big white or brown blocks, and one started fruiting.
I have to say, the spent ground coffee was not very effective, but then the strain was meant to be used with hardwood.

 
 

Question: What shall I do now to have them fruit?
Shall I take them out of the bags and perhaps hang them in netting (so to leave exposed the whole block)?
Do they need to be soaked and/or refrigerated beforehand?
Do they need to be kept in the dark while fruiting, or partial shade?

Oyster in straw
Two weeks ago I bought a kit with two bags of straw and spawn in grains.
I pasteurized the straw with boiling water poured in the bag, left a few hours and then drained.
They are developing already.



Question: Once I get a few flushes, can I use what is left to spawn more straw?
Are Oyster which can grow in straw specific to straw only, or can they grow on hardwood chips too?
If they can, I would like to try spawning an outdoor bed..

King Oyster block kits
I found a deal for three kits, which came as blocks already spawned, but with instructions for another kit.
Given the seller is not getting back to me with the right instructions, and given they were fruiting already, I improvised, tooking them out of the bags and letting them grow in darkness, spraying with water every day.
I am not sure what substrate they were grown on and have no way to check with the seller.

 


Question:
Is it a reasonable guess that the substrate must be hardwood, so suitable for inoculating hardwood dust or chips, after they fruit a few times?
Is it ok to let them fruit in darkness, or is it better to let some light in?

Fruiting cupboard
I was thinking of making a cupboard in my garden shelter, only for storing the fruiting blocks.
My idea was to enclose it in transparent sheeting, given I read that mushroom spores are not healthy, and I use the shelter as a workshop too, so I want to protect the mushrooms from wood dust.

Question: is it a bad idea to put different species fruiting in the same space?
Will they interfere with each other?


Ok, that was the last clueless question

I really hope somebody can stop by and give me some directions.

Thanks for reading!

Aldo