Sean Brown

We have 3 lots now. Started with the quarter acre lot with house , garage and shed. That space is where we keep 20 chickens in the yard, rabbits in the garage in a colony. We have two apples, 5 pears two cherries plus native pollinator plants, greens , tomatoes that reseed garlic and beans that reseed. Blueberries and raspberries round out that area. We have a shade front area we grow forest medicinals, blueberries, mushroom logs. One other space has  other plants and some random peaches just cause.
Our half acre on the block was empty except 4 mature fruit trees and two small apples. We had to remove one of the peaches and may still have to cut out a peach. Disease is rampant but we have been working on it. We started by fencing the perimeter and planting pussy willow to the north, aboravita on the east and inside the fence on the north. Native plums and redbuds on the west south we planted fragrant sumac. The next layer was person on the north end with paw paw put in-between them later. We replanted in the mature orchard with some new random plums from the plum tree existing. Added another plum  in our center line we planted a couple of pears and another cherry. I have a couple of hazel nut trees spread out, mayhaws, bush apricots, blue berries, raspberries, grapes, prairie grass, lavender, chamomile, and flowers. At the near center we have a blackberry arbor. Black raspberry fills in another section. We also have 3 different varieties of currant spread around. Many many medicinal plants, garlic beds. One enclosed annual space which also houses strawberries. There is always room for one more plant not necessarily trees anymore.  We did plant some plum from seeds to see what would come of it. Out of two we liked after 3 years. The other one was firewood.
Now our last and my personal space is a quarter acre. Removed a trailer house off of it. Repurposed parts of it for a shed, that still needs finished. I fenced it then started planting.  It is a garden for now. Knowing that at some point the trees will change the sunlight available but i like my trees. It is packed as dense as i can. I actually believe i am out of tree space. I have planted hazelnuts, pecans, Schezuan and shansho peppers, service berry, seaberry, a walnut tree, currants, gooseberry, Allegheny Chinquapin s, American beautyberry, oregon grape, american holly , redbuds, dogwoods, aboravita, some random peaches, a couple of random plums along the alley, a Kentucky coffee tree, some goumi trees, blackberry ,raspberry, and kiwi. My alley fence line is planted with black locust, roses and buffalo berry that will be cut and maintained as a living barbed fence. Oh , and finally a jujube tree. This is my space that i have my potatoes growing , corn , peas, beans poppy, greens of every sort, calendula, borage, sweet potatoes, grapes, gourds, castor plants, mushroom logs, clovers, sunflowers, and marigolds. It is also the place i built a 10x14 greenhouse for overwintering a couple of citrus trees and hopefully growing ginger. I also have space for a Johnson -Su bioreactor and a air pruning bed. Its a hot mess . Its been plentiful mostly. We will see as all three of our lots  develop. We have and will change our annuals and even some of the perennials as the trees mature. Just like in nature thing move from pioneer species to established plantings. We hope these will not only be food for our golden years but as a seed bank for the future.
Thinking about it i have not mentioned dozens of plants and trees. But im tired of typing. Moral of the story for me is make a plan, change the plan, keep planting, and don't look at seed catalog's. Good luck, have fun and  keep planting

So i have a problem that needs a remedy. I have a situation that produces a 20 cubic yard of growing medium and plant material every week. This situation requires the plant material to be composted completely without any plant material visible in the fastest way possible. 20 c²yards a week. My idea is a static aerated compost system set up in a reused grain silo. Has anyone any real experience with aerated static composting? Does my seed idea sound plausible? There is also possible access to chicken manure to help heat the pile to get it to work faster. Trying to find out any and all information I can before working on proof of concept. Thank you for all your advice and help in advance

Looking at my wall space , tank and stove dimensions i think i would have room for 7 40 gallon tanks, 5 for solar only and 2 for heated water . I need to figure out my set up . Probably two passive tanks the stove the two active tanks then the remainder passive tanks. Im hoping that the passive tank nearest the stove will draw some heat from it while its burning. I may have access to bricks that i could stack behind the tanks to add some thermal mass?  I have under 2ft from the wall i wish to allocate for the thermal battery. I want to use the space above the tanks to grow those long season tropicals, ginger tumeric, lemon grass, during the start of the season . Im hoping to have this greenhouse produce enough long season crops to at least "pay" for itself. I am also using of course to start plants and keep two cold tolerant citrus  trees thru the winter.

William Bronson wrote:
I would keep the tanks vertical if possible, and feed your hot water into the bunge that the drain valve is screwed into.
The return water can exit via the T&P valve .
I would run the tanks in parallel, incoming hot water split to enter each tank at the same time, cooled water exiting the T&P valves and becoming one stream again.
Seal off the original cold water intake, and run the original hot water outlet to a floor drain or directly outside.

Asking questions and seeking out response leads to more questions and answers. With that, I started looking more into it. From what i found people use the t&p valve as a pressure relief valve and the hot water inlet.The pages i looked at used the drain valve to return the cold water back into the boiler. If i was to run the tanks in parallel would it be prudent to have a vertical pipe a over each t&p inlet and have a valve attached incase of pressure? Seeing that i would be dumping hot water into both tanks. It does seem at this point of the thought experiment i could pipe the hot water thru the coiled pipe in between the slate and then dump the heated water into the top of the tanks and return the cold water back to the boiler.
The picture and set up is not mine but credit is due to
http://inthewilderness.net/2017/01/27/homestead-hot-water-thermosiphon-loop/

William Bronson wrote:I think if you are using an off the shelf side boiler made for the stove in question, you should have no issues with steam  flashover.

I would keep the tanks vertical if possible, and feed your hot water into the bunge that the drain valve is screwed into.
The return water can exit via the T&P valve .
I would run the tanks in parallel, incoming hot water split to enter each tank at the same time, cooled water exiting the T&P valves and becoming one stream again.
Seal off the original cold water intake, and run the original hot water outlet to a floor drain or directly outside.

It is a factory installed small boiler tank inside the stove proper. The hot water out should be at the same height as the inlet on the tanks? Then run the cold lines out the top? What about any air that would be trapped in the tank? Ideas on purging the air out? What about my idea of using the water to geat a stone shelf before running into the tanks?

Rusty Ford wrote:I
Im not sure about having a open source of water. Concerned with the moisture in the winter greenhouse. To that, where would i place the open tank in the system? If im understanding, which i might not really, the open tank would be the last tank in the system? So if i connected the first water tank to the stove then plumbed that tank to  the open tank then back to the stove, cold water return, that would work? Im really looking for drawings even if they are napkin sketches. I guess i really dont have a grasp of open and closed systems.

William Bronson wrote:I'm all about storing wood fired heat in water heater tanks.
It's hard to imagine a compelling reason to make it a closed system.
I think thermosiphoning should work on an open system.



Every water heater I've encountered has a dedicated T&P  valve coming off a threaded bunge near the top of the tank.
Cut the pipe that comes with the valve to about 2 feet long.
Turn the valve so it points up instead of down.
Open the valve and wire, tape or ziptie it in that position.

You don't mention what form your heat exchanger will take.
An open pot on top of the stove , or a coil in an open pot should be no problem, but a coil around the exhaust flue or/in or on the firebox could be.

I have a  hobbit stove ( https://salamanderstoves.com/product/the-hobbit-stove/) with the water boiler installed in it. i have no problem having a system that would be able to vent pressure out just not completely open as to let vapor into the greenhouse. Unless of course it is allowing pressure to vent off and with that i would run a pipe out of the greenhouse. Dont want standing water on my floors.
I really would like to gather as much energy storage from my fires. The reason for running the copper pipe under the slate , now thinking a slate top and bottom with the copper sandwiched in between, is to A, remove some of the heat from the water and hold it at  in the stone and B, the cooler hot water would still circulate into the tank ot tanks and the remaining heat would be trapped   . My next question is horizontal or vertical orientation of the tanks? The stove is only 24 " off the ground so im not completely sure if i need the stove at the height of the top of the system of if can be lower?  I can get 3 tanks in 52 inches vertical or 3 stacked on the horizontal same width but would take up more space vertically. The tanks would be positioned at the north wall and my south glazing is oriented so i get the most solar gain at mid winter. Of course the black painted tank will absorb solar heat passively but i am trying to grow ginger and tumeric in zone 6a. The plan is to have the plants growing on shelves above the tanks to take advantage of the radiant heat throughout the night. Ots these very vold grey days that i would beed to fire up the stove. Im trying to find schematics for a build if any kind .

I wasnt planning on using steam at all. No pumps just the thermal siphon if i understand the way the water moves around. Closed system . The salamander stoves water boiler is to make hot water not steam. The consideration of using the copper water pipe under the atone shelf is to pull some of the higher heat out of the water. The stove will be vented thru the roof . Not wanting a dual purpose greenhouse smoke house.
The goal of any thermal mass system for my greenhouse is to be able to maintain temps no lower than 60 ° at 5 ft. During the sunny days of winter i believe that the sun will warm the tanks . On weeka like we have had this month with days on days of cold and grey the wood stove would hopefully be able to increase the water temps in two tanks to help tmy cause of ginger growing without electricity.
I need to get thermometers in the greenhouse so i can see the temps in the morning. I am just finishing the interior drywall . Thanks again for any input.

Thank you all i went back and looked harder and found where to reply. Not always the sharpest light bulb in the cookie jar with online stuff sometimes. Thank you for you help and time.

I am trying to figure out if i can safely use my tiny hobbit stove by salamander with a boiler to heat water in salvaged electric water heater tanks? I have access to all the tanks i need. I am in zone 6a and the greenhouse is 10 x 14. What i have come to for my idea is using the wood stive to heat water that will first run in copper pipe under slate slabs, 2 inch thick also salvaged, shelving then i would like to pipe it into a 40 gallin water tank then into a second tank before running it back into the stove to come reheat and repeat. I have been looking at how to use the wood stove boiler to heat the water . I keep coming to the issue of a closed system possibly being something that would rupture and create a huge crater where my greenhouse uses to be. This is why i am considering running it thru the copper under the slate shelf before entering the water tanks to help lower some of the temperature. I have wondered if a pressure tank would help or if just a pressure valve would do. I will scribble my drawing down later . Any ideas or wisdom from anyone who has built a wood fired water heater system? Thank you in advance