Ron Kelley

John C Daley wrote:What will you use on the roof?

John, we will be installing a ridge pole (Douglas fir log) and rough cut 2x10 sheathed with 5/8" CDX plywood ice and water shield and finally metal roofing.

It's been a while but here's an update. We decided to stay in a camper. It was offered to us by an awesome neighbor or and we decided to make it work. We've been building all winter and have made quite a bit of progress. We are actually living full time in a 10x20 section of the main level now. The driveway we cleared has been usable but we know it needs to be a priority as soon as the thaw happens. Then on to chickens and rabbits. Heres some pictures of what we've done so far.

I appreciate all of things you've mentioned. I should have mentioned earlier than I'm a General Contractor by trade and am very aware of all of the codes, inspections, etc. that go into building a home. We are very rural so there's much less in the way of building codes near me. No sprinklers needed, fire can already reach my land, there's no creek crossings, being hooked up to the power grid isn't necessary and we plan on using a solar power set up with a back up generator. Average well depth in my direct area is between 50-80ft. We have spring that can provide water as well. I've already checked to see if there are any restrictions, easements, special requirements where I'm at and there aren't any except having to be 300' away from the creek at the low spot of our land which is fine because we don't plan on building on steep slope anyway. The land is surrounded by state land that's leased from the owner of the land I am buying and that backs up to national forest so we are protected from any commercial building or logging. I made sure of that before I ever stepped foot on the land to look at it. Taxes are not very high where we are and I have already talked to a gentleman that has almost a 5,000 sq/ft cabin about a mile away from me and his taxes are less  than half of what I pay for rent right now so I'm going to be ok. We are minimalists and don't plan on having anything very big. We will have more outdoor spaces than indoor. There's good bedrock around us, there's a lot of granite on our land both above and below ground. There are no earthquake requirements for well or buildings. These are all good things to think about though and although I am experienced with the process our company did mainly suburban residential work and that can be very different than undeveloped land in the mountains in a part of the country I've never go through the process in before. I've tried to be very thorough and make sure we are going into a good situation. As far as the seller selling he own a very large free range ranch and has decided to piece out the land a little to downsize. He's keeping the best grazing areas and selling the rest off. Although it is free range around there so it's my responsibility to keep the cattle off of my land which was something I found out after looking into things. For now they will keep my grasses down and lower my fire risk so I'm ok with them. As soon a we start to develop the land though I will be fencing off areas to keep them out and relying on my 2 Mastiffs and our Pitbull to keep them out of our general area until then. They are known to rub on cars, campers houses etc and do damage. This is the one things I've found so far that I haven't ever had to deal with before coming from dairy land not beef cattle country. Thanks for taking the time give me such detailed answers to think about.  

Here's a few pictures of what I'll have on hand to be working with. Plenty of available wood for building!

Cristo Balete wrote:I definitely agree about living on the property for at least winter and spring to see how the water flows, where the ground gets soaked, how the storm winds blow,  how much heavy rainfall runs downhill, whether it be down a driveway or down onto a foundation.   Also, a septic tank needs to be where it won't get water logged in the winter.

Buying a used trailer with a heater, bathroom, shower and kitchen will really help with the stress of living on unimproved property.  It could become a guest room, or it could be sold if/when you decide you don't want it.  I would recommend a trailer as opposed to a motorhome because I never could keep mice and rats out of the engine of the motorhome.

You aren't mentioning a permitted building to live in, so be careful about sinking too much money into a building that the county then shows up and red-tags.  They could red-tag it because it is illegal, because the fire department can't get to it, because the propane truck can't/won't come to fill a large propane tank (which you would eventually need, because most household appliances need a minimum of 100-gallon propane tank that is filled by a local company.)  Check before buying gas appliances that they will run on a 5 gallon or 10 gallon propane tank.  Most full-sized gas appliances will NOT, so always check for that.

All of these agencies/companies are connected, and they will alert the county that you are building something.  So don't plan on not being noticed by your neighbors, by the PO if you get a PO Box (they are amazingly nosy), and by people in a small town keeping track of what's going on.

You'll also be able to find out just what kind of driveway you'll need when you are walking/driving/hauling things to the trailer.  Over a couple of seasons you'll get a good idea about the best location.  It almost doesn't matter where you put a house eventually if you can't get to it in the worst part of the winter.  You will not want to have to haul in grcoeries, propane, wood, gasoline, stuff for daily living.

I didn't mention permitting but I do plan to do it correctly and legally. I just spend a few days on the land scouting possible building sites and just getting introduced to it. We don't plan on building our home until next year but want to pick a few areas where we like the view the most and see how they do throughout the change in seasons.

I found what I believe to be an undeveloped spring. So that is something I'll need to pay attention to when there's some water or drainage that starts to flow towards that area. I don't plan on building near there anyway though.

We had a small construction company before we decided to fully commit to the homestead lifestyle so we have a very good idea of the building process, although it's in a residential/neighborhood setting. I appreciate the things the brought up. Some of them pertain to us and some don't but they are all good things to think about while planning the future layout of our land.

We have decided to build a shop structure to live in for a temporary home while we scout for a building spot and build our home. While we are working on the shop/loft space we will be staying in a camper van that I bartered for with a neighbor while I was there.

Everything seems to be falling into place. My main concern right now is not putting the shop in the wrong location since I only want to build it once. I am thinking closer to the road for any deliveries that may need to be made as well as any potential clients stopping by in the future wouldn't need to be close to my house or family.  Any insight you may have into this would be great. Thanks.

Cristo Balete wrote:Maintaining a dirt-and-gravel driveway is a real commitment of time and money.  It is one of the most important things on improving any piece of land that will be well worth the money you put into it.   Look into first putting down road fabric, then some kind of soil stabilizer (like GeoHex) that is then covered over with 1 1/2" gravel.  The fabric keeps the gravel from sinking into the soil, and the grid stabilizer keep the gravel from shooting out the sides and creating two tracks of bare ground where the wheels go.  

Maybe the first year it can be exciting to be an off-grid warrior, but in bad storms, when it's cold, wet, icy, freezing, windy, you just want to be warm and safe and not end each day feeling like exhausted roadkill.

I recently went to spend a few days taking a look at the piece of land we are purchasing and I thought to look into the road/driveway situation while I was there.  Everyone in the area uses shale for their driveways, as well as any access roads. They use a larger shale base and fill in with a smaller shale over the top. It drains well packs in and doesn't require any fabric or base. I appreciate you bringing this up. I definitely had not put enough thought in to this.

Daniel Ray wrote:I wouldn't rush into building anything so quickly. It is tempting to get the construction going, but I have found it very useful to spend at least a short period "living" with the land to determine the best spot for a house and future projects. Is it possible to instead do a temporary structure or a small outbuilding that could be lived in for the first winter? Possibly find a used yurt or a large wall tent that would keep you cozy the first year?

If not, I would say if you have timber and can access an excavator, then go with Paul's Wofati. https://permies.com/f/75/wofati-earth-berm

Check out the different designs, they build quick and don't cost very much if you can get an excavator rented or borrowed.

I would like the chance to live on the property and get a chance to know it before building. My concern is keeping my family safe and happy throughout the winter. I don't want it to feel like "survival". I have no experience with wall tents or yurts but would be open to the idea. I'll have to do some more research on both of them and see what I can find. I like this idea as well because I feel it could always be reconstructed again on a different piece of the land for long term guests or if we have a friend or family member that would want to build and would need a temporary structure. Any places you could direct my research would be helpful. Thank you!

thomas rubino wrote:Hi Ron; Welcome to Permies!
Congratulations on getting your land!
That is the first step towards being self sufficient!
Wow quite the undertaking this late in the summer!  
I think I would start by figuring out where the rocket mass heater will be sitting and plan my (Shop) around that.
I hear you about being able to build quickly and by yourself but, A frames are hard to heat and not convenient at all space wise. You'll need firewood in WA.
A single pitch roof can be built by hand easier than a conventional roof home.
A family of six needs some floor space.  This late in the season I would get a single story building up and plan on "camping" in the shop this winter.
Next spring after snow melt you will have a clean slate to look at and start your forever home then.

Thank you!
My wife and I have been talking about this for a very long time.
It is quite the undertaking this late in the season I agree. We had a few pieces of land slip away from us and it has caused us to get a much later start than we wanted.
The good that came from that though is that we absolutely love the land we ended up with and think it was meant to be.
Firewood is something we will have plenty of. We have 20 acres and it's mostly treed with plenty to be cleaned up that are ready for this year.
I need a shop either way so this is definitely something that may work.
I'm not very keen on building a temp structure to live in because I feel like it's wasted time and materials unless I see a long term use for it.
I'm very open to doing things a different way so please feel free to share any ideas you may have.

R Scott wrote:I agree to not rush in...

But let's talk options,

How good is your access? Can you get a semi truck to the site? Pickup and trailer? Four wheel drive only?

I am all for building a temp structure--buy a storage shed that you can move if your design changes, or build a shop or garage and add a couple bedrooms for the winter.

Access is good. It's about 200' off of a county maintained road. I would have to cut in a driveway to any building site or shop area but a semi, or truck and trailer could easily make it onto the land. I like the idea of building a shop for the winter. I could still start building our permanent home during the winter I'm already used to the cold coming from the Midwest.

Hello everyone. I want to start off by saying we are very excite to join this amazing community. We are in the process of purchasing some timbered land in WA. We don't have much left over after purchasing the land so we need to stretch every cent as far as it can go. Good thing that's what we're all about! I am a carpenter and have built/renovated plenty of homes but I have never done it in an off grid setting in the mountains. I know we have water since there is an aspen grove so we are set there. My concern is getting a livable structure that my family of 6 can make it happily through a winter while continuing to complete the interior and add some of the comforts we want in our home. We are on a southern facing slope so I'm hoping that means less snow but I know we will get some. I'm thinking an A-frame because I think I can get the rafters constructed on the ground and stood up by myself without too much of a headache. As of right now we don't have temporary housing that we can put on the property (i.e. camper, RV, etc.) I'm sure I'm kind of all of the place here but I'm extremely excited to start living our dream and I can't wait to get started. I don't want to rush in without a plan and get us in trouble right off the bat. Thanks everyone! I look forward to what ya'll have to say!