Brandon Charles

Hey Brad - what I would say if you're trying to homestead in Pierce County is BE CAREFUL talking to the county officials. If they catch wind of what you have planned, you will be on their radar and they can and will shut you down if you aren't following all of their steps. And yes, you will be required to no matter if you own the land outright or have a loan on it. Their regulations are for public health and safety and to satisfy department of ecology standards. Each of these has nothing to do with your financial status. As far as loopholes, there are none. You will be required to go through each and every one of the steps you listed if you try to follow the proper channels. This will cost you years of time, and as you've seemed to have figured out, a TON of money.

If you wanted to be able to develop your homestead legally without jumping through all of these hoops, you chose the wrong county to homestead in. That's the long and short of it. Basically all of the counties west of the cascades are like this. Some are worse that others. Unfortunately, I have friends who have built in Pierce County, and from the stories I've heard from them, it's literally one of the worst. I live in Thurston which isn't much better, but they seem particularly militant about these things in Pierce. I wouldn't even consider buying property there after the stories I've heard (unless I was prepared to spend the time and money on doing everything they require). Counties like Pierce are antithetical to low-tech homesteading, as it's been legislated into being literally illegal.

If you want to remain in Pierce and try to homestead the low-tech way, you basically have no choice but to do so VERY discretely, and try to fly under the radar as much as possible. If your neighbors catch wind and report you, you're probably cooked. If you alert the the county to your ongoings, same result. If I were you I would try to make your property look like a recreational one to whatever extent you can, and do not alert anyone to the fact that you are living there full time. The full-time residence component is a big one; that's what seems to really trigger the county more than anything else. If they think you are living there full time without having put in all the proper infrastructure, they will very likely seek to shut you down.

Edit: many counties east of the mountains have followed suit. It's getting  harder and harder to find "pockets of freedom" where you can build a low-tech homestead without the looming threat of legal trouble.

The only place in the US that I know of where you can go set up shop and stay indefinitely is Slab City. If anyone knows of another spot that is similarly free of policing, feel free to chime in.

National parks will be very difficult. They are patrolled heavily and generally don't allow for dispersed camping. BLM and National Forest land is more viable, but generally only for short term stays. If you try to set up anything long-term on or near a road, the authorities will come disband the camp before too long. I think the maximum camping duration in National Forest land is 14 days, and with homelessness on the rise the rangers are going to have no choice but to start policing the areas more. They already are where I live. I've seen several groups get away with NF camping in Washington for brief stints over the past several years, but the rangers have now caught on and all of the camps I've seen previously have been disbanded. Staying mobile solves this problem as you can do that and stay within the rule book, but that life can wear people thin after a while. It's good to have a home-base if possible, especially in the winter. That nomadic model also prohibits food self-sufficiency to a large extent.

My personal vision is to have the best of both worlds by purchasing a very remote property that either borders, or is in very close proximity to national forest or BLM land. That way the group can make use of both.

I'm very interested in seeing where this goes (remaining covid cautious is one of my utmost priorities). I wish I could offer my land in Washington, but there are elements concerning the land itself that make it not conducive to a bigger intentional community format. I am open to hosting a single individual or possible a couple here, but anything more involved than that would potentially cause problems in my local community. Plus half of my 5 acres is wetland, so space is limited here. Eventually I would definitely entertain moving to another community, perhaps on a property more conducive to a intentional community structure (assuming values, location etc. all line  up). I'd also prefer a less populated area than where I currently live, ideally speaking.

My main question is - how do you intend on structuring a community like the one you describe without raising red flags with local public health authorities? I know there are a few counties left in the country that still permit unconventional living styles, but  they are few and far between. Most jurisdictions have extensive codes that prohibit tent/van dwelling type communities. That's the biggest challenge that I foresee. I'm all for the lifestyle - I've done extensive van dwelling stints, lived in a bell tent for a period, and now live in a very small tiny house. The economics of such a lifestyle would make the barrier to entry significantly lower for folks on the lower end of the economic ladder, which we have a dire need for pretty much everywhere. It's the code enforcers that are barring the way at this point. Very interested to hear how you might plan on tackling that particular obstacle.

Anyway, I'd love to participate in the discussion going forward. I am having trouble with the discord server though - it doesn't like my phone number for some reason and it seems they require one for logging in?

I realize this may seem ridiculous to a lot of folks out there, but I've basically been forced to keep trying to avoid covid and was wondering if there are any Cascadia Permies in a similar situation? Basically I got hit really hard by a horrible Covid infection right at the beginning of the pandemic, developed Long Covid as a result, and have been fighting to keep my head above water ever since. Every time I start to get marginally better, I get infected again and the whole process starts over. As a result I've had maybe 2 months in any given year since 2020 where I feel somewhat decent. The rest of the time I'm in purgatory, and frankly I'm sick of the suffering. The situation just isn't tenable any longer. Basically, this has driven me to the conclusion that I need to avoid the gosh darned virus for a while and see if I can figure out why my body has such a hard time dealing with it (and see if I can manage to have a year where I don't feel like death warmed over). Trust me this is not a conclusion I have come to lightly, and  had to touch the red hot stove several times before the reality of the situation became apparent.

That said, I have come to a point where I need to start cultivating friendships with folks who are also doing what they can to avoid Covid (and thus minimize infection risk). Whether because they have suffered in a similar way with Covid-related health issues, or because they realize that Covid has the potential to strike anyone at anytime and they want to practice forward-thinking risk mitigation. I'd love to hear from you either way!  Not sure really what I'm hoping for, ultimately. I do live on a beautiful 5 acres (in the Cascade foothills of Thurston County) backing up to miles of timberland, and I would eventually like to have people join me out here in a kind of intentional community format. At the same time, I've also considered relocating to another more established community as an alternative. Both options are open (eventual) possibilities. In the meantime, I'd just like to make friends and see where it goes. Maybe work on some collaborative projects together? I'm down for anything really. I go at a slow pace these days due to the long covid issue, but I still chug along and get things done. I have a host of natural building projects that I have in the pipeline, habitat restoration stuff to get to, food forest establishment, a pond to dig etc. I'm also doing all kinds of off-grid food projects, and have a ton of primitive skills goals that I want to pick up practicing again (the pandemic really slowed me down in that realm). Down the road, I would like to actually get into some kind of permaculture business collaboration, as my current employment situation puts me at more Covid risk than I want to keep entertaining. Plus I've never really liked my career anyway. It's of the soul-sucking variety. Ultimately I have aspirations for some kind of cooperative business situation, but have not settled on any particular direction yet. Maybe something oriented around natural building, habitat restoration (my background in construction lends itself to either), farming, or some combination thereof. Those are all a ways out though. First I just want to make some connections, and achieve some infrastructure goals on the property.

I'm not really great on self-descriptions, but for what it's worth I'm a 39 year old guy, former outdoor enthusiast (mountain/rock climbing, fly fishing, hunting, primitive skills etc.), now entering a much more mellow, reflective phase of life. Part of this is due to aforementioned health circumstances, but I was definitely on a ecological/spiritual bent well before Covid struck so much of my present inertia is wholly organic. I've gotten pretty deep into Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism and other Eastern practices in recent years, and I've also gotten huge into botany and restoration ecology. In my younger days I was an anthropology nerd, and studied just about everything there is to learn about ancient cultures and primitive lifeways. A lot of that still resonates, but has definitely been tempered somewhat as I've aged and delved into other philosophical systems. Eastern religion in particular has radically altered my way of perceiving/relating to a great many things, although I can say definitively that every stage of life has produced valuable lessons that I carry with me to this day. I'm kind of an amalgam in that way. One day I'm planning big restoration projects, the next drinking tea and meditating,  the next exploring the wild hinterlands, the next foraging and doing food preservation projects, and the next deliberating amongst a thousand different natural building ideas that I have floating around in my mind. Then sometimes I want to put it all on hold for a while and go on a multi-month van-life adventure. If I'm anything, I'm a person of many interests.

As far as permaculture goes, I must say I'm actually a fairly reluctant farmer. I truly feel I'm more of a nomad at heart, but I recognize the necessity in it for basically every reason conceivable in the modern era (ethical, ecological, subsistence, security etc.), so I definitely have plans in the farming realm. A lot of those plans I hope to implement when there's more possibility for collaboration as I don't have the inclination to have it consume my life by doing it all solo. For now I plant perennials aimed at an eventual food forest and will do a quick and dirty version of land-race annuals this year, but that's about it. I definitely want animals eventually, but need some partners in crime for that component. Most often, my impulses for habitat restoration manifest at odds with whatever farming impulses I might have. Even my most "Permie" visions can seem overly impactful on the sensitive ecology of the land I live on. One is forced to make concessions, of course, but I do so at a slow pace, generally after years of observation so that I can make the best possible choices.  

Anyway, that's me in a nutshell. I know it's a long shot with the weird Covid situation I'm faced with, but thought I'd take a shot in the dark anyway. If you're in a similar boat and/or anything I've written here resonates, feel free to drop me a line.

Thank you! I will definitely check out RootedNW. I think I've seen their ads recently on Facebook actually. Would be interesting to find out what they have going on up there.

Hi all - I'll be moving north (from Olympia area) for a job soon. I have two properties in Thurston County that I have extensive plans for, but need a bit of capital for infrastructure projects, and the best paying jobs in my industry tend to be north. Long story short, I'll be living and working up there for at least a year, probably a bit longer, and I would love to find a house share or mother in law apartment (or anything along those lines) on a farm, or even a few acres, shared with fellow permies. I will probably be too busy to chip in much with work, but I can pay well, and reliably, for the space. Would love to make some new friends and at least be around some cool projects while I slave away for the machine. Looking for anything in the area from basically Edmonds up to Mount Vernon area. Can be East or west of I5 but ideally not too terribly far out. Needs to be an on-grid situation with reliable high speed internet, as a great deal of my job will be from a home office. I just need to be close enough to travel to various jobsites when needed, and Olympia is a tad too far. Anyway, feel free to shoot me a message if you know of anything.

Oh, and I'm a 37yo male, very quiet healthy lifestyle, non smoker, drink only very lightly on occasion, predominantly introverted but with a healthy extrovert side, regular meditator, practiced in Buddhism but with no serious affiliation, and very, very passionate about all things regenerative and wild. Thanks for reading!

This offer is still open if anyone is interested. Spring is on the way and soon there will be hundreds of nettles to harvest! Would love to have a homestead partner or two out here. Just me and tons of wild critters right now. Hope you all are doing well!

Hi there! Yes, I've definitely found the main way to successfully control them in an area is to dig each and every one up by the root. Unfortunately, they got far too great a head start on me so the prospect of getting and keeping ahead of them is basically nil at this point. Even if I could, I wouldn't want to. The plan would be to create paddocks for the goats where the blackberries are most prolific, and in places where I have no food trees planted, and just let them have a heyday. My plan is to turn certain patches of my property into pseudo native prairie anyway, as that's actually the most threatened ecosystem in our local area. Forests abound and have no trouble reestablishing without our help, or with minimal help. If I were going for a native forest I would just selectively mow (with a brush hog or heavy duty weed eater) the blackberries down year after year, being careful to avoid the most important native trees and shrubs, until the forest could eventually shade out and outcompete them (and also do some selective spot pulling in areas that make sense and where I have the time to devote). But since I'm aiming for prairie in several areas, I don't need to worry as much about losing some native shrub and tree species. I think the statistic is that only about 4% of the pre-colonial native prairie land still exists today, and since as much of my philosophy is about conservation and regeneration as it is permaculture focused, I have no problem letting the goats do their thing in those specific areas. Other areas they will never ever be permitted in, such as those where there are a lot of native food bearing plants (I have tons of native hazelnuts and at least 5 species of native berry), and obviously where I have my non native perennials planted. It's a very calculated plan, and I've had 4 years of watching the land to come up with it, but time is my biggest deficiency at the moment. And energy I suppose.

We are currently looking for help that could potentially evolve into a long term living situation for the right person. I have 3 different properties that I'm currently splitting time working on, and one of those in particular really needs a full time steward. It's five acres of recently (5 years ago) clearcut land, so it has a ton of potential for someone wanting to participate in restorative permaculture. There's a ton of native food bearing plants already established, but the invasives - blackberry in particular- are working overtime to outcompete them. This is where we need the most help.

The long term vision is to incorporate goats, as they will be instrumental in helping manage the weed situation, but I don't want to do that until I have at least one other person invested in stewarding the property with me. Currently I'm not around quite often enough to justify brining animals in without any backup help. The property is currently off grid, but we will be bringing power in shortly. There is one tiny cabin on the land, which is where I stay when on the property. Water is from rain barrels and also imported for drinking. We plan on drilling a well eventually. Any person interested should have a comfortable RV or camper van that they can abide in during the trial period. They should be accustomed to off grid life and confident in living self sufficiently in a very rustic environment.

The arrangement would be some kind of work trade and/or modest rental fee for the space. The real benefit here would be a section of property you could essentially make your own, doing whatever permaculture oriented projects you can dream up. As mentioned I'm quite busy elsewhere, and I would really like to set the right person up with a situation they can take real ownership of. As  long as the blackberries are being controlled, and when it comes time, the goats are well looked after, there would be few, if any, additional expectations. If things worked out and you came to love this land as much as I do, then we could look at building another permanent structure such as a yurt, another cabin, as well as adding an outdoor kitchen. RV power will be the first main addition, then everything would flow from there.

We don't have nearly enough work right now to keep a person employed in any way, so anyone interested would need to be economically stable and/or willing to get a job locally. Olympia isn't far at all and most people I know commute there for work. Again, we aren't going to require much of your time with the work trade. At first it would be just a few hours a week pulling blackberries, and once the goats are here, helping take care of them while they take over the blackberry work. If it happens that you are working full time elsewhere, we could structure the arrangement however we needed to to accommodate. Most of all, our goal is the create a situation you are happy with!

My personal favorite thing about the property is its location. Being backed up against miles of forestry land, it has a beautiful wild essence and a huge assortment of wild animal neighbors. It's at the end of a long gravel road, and has that serene secluded feel that is hard to come by in this day and age. The land itself is very injured from former logging abuse, but our aim is to slowly help guide it back to a beautiful forest, complete with an abundance of perennial food bearing plants. But we need your help to do it! Feel free to message me if interested. Thanks for reading!