Randie Ray

Tristan Vitali wrote:

Randie Ray wrote:
There's also a very acidic layer of Mt St Helen's ash that was turned over onto the top of the soil when our land was was being excavated for home building. This stuff is 5PH!! Have quick lime will travel, eh? Great for Blueberries though. Got lots of blueberry starts thriving here.

Wow! I'm sure it's still loaded with nutrients, but that's some pretty low pH. We're dealing with similar poor draining soil, nearly pure clay, with low pH out here on the opposite side of the country. What seems to have worked best for it is copious amounts of organic matter on the surface. Trying to mix it in turns things to soup when wet, then it sets up like concrete, but thick mulch in a matter of two years gives us a gorgeous 4" layer of water retentive topsoil that everything seems to love. By year 6, some of the beds are looking rich down to nearly 1 foot (quite the accomplishment with this soil!)

One thing with the very low pH comes to mind - mind your other minerals and the soil type. Clay often binds up badly when there's high magnesium in the soil, which is why the idea of using gypsum rather than dolomite lime works out so well. Sulfur in the gypsum will actually pull the magnesium out from between plates of clay particles, the "deflocculation" process, while actually freeing up calcium and potassium already in the soil. I've seen some "soilologists" talk about treating highly acid, hard pack clay soils with elemental sulfur first to help fix magnesium issues, and have run into my own experience of accidentally (ignorantly) adding magnesium to a bed only to find the soil got tighter and plants suffered. High-Cal lime, wallastonite, and even the various potassium amendments will have much more impact on the soil if you're dealing with heavy clay than dolomitic lime.

Something to look at if you've done a soil test and see normal-ish magnesium but low numbers for everything else along with a low pH.

All that said, cover crop everything with anything that will grow. It's amazing what a multi-species cover crop will do in a couple years. Shoot for 8 or more species with varying root structures, and go heavy on the hardy, low growing, standing-water tolerant white clover to help fix that nitrogen issue. 8 seems to be the magic number, but more is always better. Even in hard pack clay with a ~5.5 pH and water-logging issues, we've seen excellent results doing this and then letting the ducks and chickens run wild once or twice a year - once you find your compost worms prefer the future crop fields and pasture areas to their bin, you know you're doing it the right way

Thanks for all this good experience with your very similar situation. Good to know that we are heading in the right direction with the mulch. We do want to have some chickens. Our soil is actually normal on magnesium and high in sulfur, and that layer that was turned over looks like white ash. So our soil tester suggested we stay away from Gypsum and Dolomite and stick with quick lime which is the high calcium kind, like you suggested. We have a cover crop of white clover and also are planting fava and diakon, and some rye grass is coming up from the straw we had used temporarily for erosion control.  I'm putting in as many nitrogen fixing trees and shrubs that I can find.  I do hope that in 6 years we can say the same about our soil that you are saying about yours.

Hey there, new to this forum, but I'm loving this discussion on staples, because I am putting in a new garden, planning to do the Permie way, and am experimenting with potatoes from true seed, not tubers. I have some fall producers in the ground now, just harvested some that I grew in pots through the summer, and have ordered and will now plant a couple frost resistant varieties in a week or so.
Here's where I'm buying my seed: https://www.cultivariable.com/catalog/potato/   They are fairly reasonable.  I plan to put row covers on them to protect them from the torrential rain, and will let you know what happens.
Does anyone have any experience growing potatoes from true seed?
I love the fava bean idea for a fall and winter garden. I love the idea of succession planting favas all around my place.
I am in the process of planting a winter garden of garlic, multiplier onion, carrots, parsnips, parsley root, celeriac, celery, Lovage, spinach, kale, Good King Henry, potatoes, favas. My learning curve here is horrendous, LOL! But I am loving it.
I'm also broadcasting a thin crop of diakon radish for cover and soil amending. We have pure clay/silt soil with almost no drainage and no nitrogen content - being located near the Columbia river in the rainy end of the gorge. We are also on the Chip Drop list service and got our first drop of near free 10yard load of woodchips last month. That didn't go very far. Need about three more loads.
There's also a very acidic layer of Mt St Helen's ash that was turned over onto the top of the soil when our land was was being excavated for home building. This stuff is 5PH!! Have quick lime will travel, eh? Great for Blueberries though. Got lots of blueberry starts thriving here.
All input is SO welcome!!