Nat Kadziel

Gray Henon wrote:I’d consider building bunds, #2 in the link below, for each tree.  Being sure to maintain wind breaks as Paul suggested.  Mulch will also be your friend providing it does’t invite burrowing animals.  Do you see evidence of gophers, etc?

http://www.rainwaterharvesting.org/international/dryland.htm

I will definitely trial these bunds. Im going to try a few different methods that people have suggested and see which one works best. I haven't seen any gophers but I have heard talk of voles.

Laurel Jones wrote:

Loretta Liefveld wrote:

Laurel Jones wrote:
ha!  This coming a week before my order of ~100 perennials is shipped hits a bit close to home.  

 OMG!   ONE HUNDRED???  Simply cannot imagine that.

BUT- if I wasn't working under the clock, I probably wouldn't get any of this stuff done.

 How true, how true.  Which is probably why I never end up preparing the location the year before needed.... no urgency to do so.

Yeah.  It was a choice that I made while I was feeling particularly energetic last autumn. Luckily most of them are going to be relatively easy to plant.  I DO at least have the bed prepped for the 50 asparagus crowns that are incoming (built it last fall before ordering so I would know how many to order), then I have 10 raspberries, 10 blackberries, and 10 rhubarb crowns, which brings the total to 80.  I have 24 tiny bare root trees coming sometime soon, bringing the total to 104, and a there's a handful of little artichokes and cartoons presently growing in my dining room under grow lights.  It's manageable, but I also have ~76 tomato seedlings needing desperately to see dirt.  It's going to be a really busy couple weeks, all because I planned ahead to ambitiously lol

With everything going on in the world right now I felt very motivated to plant trees and shrubs as soon as possible. My wife and I plan to move out to the property in about 4 years if we can. We are hoping that by then some of the trees will be established and bearing(if they survive .

Gray Henon wrote:What, if anything do you see growing in the area?  Have you spoken with the county extension agent, or similar? I have found species selection to be the most important determinate of success.  

I have not spoken to a county extension agent, that is a great suggestion. I will email them today. On my property its Doug fir, ponderosa pine, snowberry and mullein are the primary species I could identify but the neighbors all have fruit trees of various kinds that I can see when driving through the area. I plan on talking to them if I run in to them on my trip out there that is coming up in the next couple of days.

Gray Henon wrote:I feel swales are more for capturing infrequent, heavy rains, which it doesn’t sound like you get.  Do you see evidence of heavy runoff?  How fast does water perk into the soil?

On the steeper portions of the property I see some signs of erosion. Unfortunately whoever decided to place the access road decided to cut straight up the slope so there are also ditches from water running on the road. No the area doesn't really get heavy inundations. The annual rainfall is 20" with 4ft of snow. There have been rainfall events around 1" to 2.7" being the largest rain event since recording in the area. The area is super dry in the summer more wet in fall and spring. Was hoping to also catch snow melt with swales.

Alina Green wrote:I recall Geoff Lawton mentioning that at one point, someone wanted to eliminate the cardboard when planting trees.  Only the trees that had cardboard survived.  I think it referred to wet cardboard placed on top after planting...

So maybe consider at least adding that factor, to boost your chances of success?

This is a great idea thank you, I have a ton of cardboard saved!

It is mullein and there is a ton of it on the property. The areas for the swales are much further away

Adding some photos for more context on the slope and ecology.

Thank you for your replies!

Unfortunately I can't postpone the tree order. I think I will plan on just hauling butt and getting the swales dug. From the math I have done it does not seem like I need particularly large swales as the largest rain event recorded is less than 2" and the slope is treed with grass so there is not much run off so maybe digging these by hand in the alloted time will be doable.

EDIT: I am planning on adding more swales in later but at this point Ive planned out about 800 linear feet of swales to plant the trees in and I feel I will be lucky to get that amount done hand digging

Hi all,
Im back again to ask for help . I have 11 acres in Eastern Washington. I do not live at the site right now and will only be able to visit a couple of times a year. The site is has southern aspect, rainfall 20inches annually 44 inches of snow mostly ponderosa pine and doug fir on the landscape now. What I am struggling with right now is whether to swale or not. I was originally going to rent heavy machinery to install the swales but I do not have the finances for it at the moment and hand digging the swales seems like a TON of work but I am willing to do it if it is the best course of action. The land is moderately sloped, no slope is steeper than 15 degrees. The soil is well draining and categorized as stony loam. Summers are hot and dry and winters cool and moist. I will be at the site for 10 days in early May and want to get these trees planted. They will not be irrigated so I want to give them the best possible chance I can for survival. I have attached a photo of the site with some contour lines marked out. Its a very rough image and I am changing the software I am using to design and also drawing some ideas by hand. The contour lines with shapes on them are where I was planning to put the swales. I was going to plant trees 15ft spacing on center with overstory trees and understory trees in the mix. The trees I purchased are:

Honeylocust
Blacklocust
Sugar Maple
Marriana plum rootstock
Apple EMLA-111 rootstock
Oregon white oak
Carpathian english walnut
pyrus betulaefolia(pear rootstock)
Colossal chestnut
Tsukuba chestnut
Red mulberry seedlings
Shellbark hickory

Any advice is greatly appreciated

Anne Miller wrote:Mark Shepard makes a case for what he calls the STUN method: sheer, total, and utter neglect.

This lady makes some good points:

Carol said, "I always tell them to quit tilling their soil, keep it covered, stop using chemicals, and welcome all life, including ants and spiders and all kinds of creepy crawlies. I teach them how to be pollinator friendly and make them aware of pollinators many people overlook, like ants and butterflies. I dig up small portions of my STUN garden and show them soil structure and explain its benefits, including carbon sequestration. I teach them to make compost tea.

growing a million calories a year

I would imagine that this method would work under the right conditions.

Maybe using a hugelkulture bed.  

Having gotten your soil already to be super soil.

Your area gets a better than average rainfall at the right times.

Well that is fantastic news about rainfall in the area, I did not know that! Im going to be broadcasting cover crops and just try to get any plants I can to get established to try to start building up the soil. Mostly I want to get the soil covered now but if I can get a yield out of this planting that is icing on the cake.