Anton Jacobski Hedman

Eino Kenttä wrote:Regarding the time to fruiting and fruit quality when growing an apple tree from seed: When I was five years old, I sowed one apple seed (in a pot to start with, I believe). This was later transplanted to my parents' garden, where it has grown over the years. The growth has been quite slow, as the spot is probably by no means ideal for an apple tree (sandy soil, probably not very rich in nutrients, and gets dry in summer). Anyway, this year, 22 years later, it finally fruited! Three fruits started developing, two made it all the way to autumn, and one of them was nearly ripe when we harvested them (we didn't dare wait longer, because we feared that frost might ruin the fruit). And the taste? It was really good! Unusually fragrant, decently sweet and not terribly sour (despite not being quite ripe), with a little hint of nice bitterness. If there is really only a 1 in 20.000 chance to have nice fruit on a tree grown from seed, maybe I ought to get in the habit of buying lottery tickets...

From what I've heard, the fruit quality is likely to improve with time, as the tree can put aside more energy for fruiting. The fruit might also ripen earlier.

By a really cool coincidence, this year was also the year when me and my partner finally bought some land of our own. I plan to try and clone the tree, so we can have one on our own land as well. Ideally, I'd like to try air layering, to have an own-root tree.

So, yeah. It's definitely possible to get nice fruit trees like this. I'll not make any claims about the probability (n=1 being a tiny sample size; maybe I just got extremely lucky) but it's kinda cool to have your very own apple tree variety...

It didn't at least flower before this year though?? That's an extremely long time for an apple tree to bear fruit. If it did flower earlier years I'd say there has been a problem with pollination, and if so maybe this year it bore fruit because the right pollen came in at the right time by wind or pollinating insects flying in from afar.

Paul Young wrote:Perhaps redundant, but to the point...
Tap roots are the roots derived from the first root (radicle) that emerges from the seed. The original tap root is part of the original embryonic plant. All seed plants have this embryonic tap root. In dicots, the tap root continues to grow and branch to form a tap root system which may consist of a great many side roots and a very extensive root system. If you dig up a plant and sever the main tap root, any new roots that develop off of the remaining tap root system are still a part of the tap root system.
Roots that develop from stems, adventitious roots, are not tap roots even though they may be the only root type that forms the entire root system. Roots sprouting from a stem cutting are an example. These roots are not tap roots and never become tap roots even though they may look like a tap root system.
In monocots, such as grasses, the embryonic tap root soon dies and is replaced by adventitious roots from the stem base. Multiple roots typically emerge from the stem base to form an extensive network of fibrous roots (as in grasses and onions) or a woody root system as in trees derived from stem cuttings
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Ok, thanks for the info. That would mean that only seeded trees can have a true taproot.. that makes an argument for growing fruit trees from seed in dry areas.

Hey.

Does anybody here grow or have any other experience with chinese yams or maybe other species like japanese yams? They seem like a really interesting perennial starchy tuber plant with staple crop potential even in cold, temperate climates that doesn't require much care, they're even invasive in parts of the US. Chinese yam(Dioscorea polystachya/batatas) is quite winter hardy and can grow down to USDA zone 4-5 from what I've read. Apparently unlike many other yams they can also be eaten raw although their skin is said to be an irritant, and overall their flavour is said to be pleasant and reminiscent of potatoes and making a very good mash. They are allegedly very popular over in East Asia in China, Japan and Korea. Chinese yams are very easy to propagate as they grow small tubers in the air that can be planted to grow new full sized plants/vines that produce the big root tubers, and it tends to grow new shoots/suckers from the base that can be transplanted. Some sources say the air tubers are also edible but I don't know about that personally, and they are small. The plant itself is a perennial so it just keeps on giving new root tubers to harvest each year and even though it takes several years to reach full maturity it starts producing decently sized tubers already the next year of planting.

If it's true that these plants are both hardy and very productive with little care needed and being highly edible then they seem to be almost a no-brainer to try out growing?? I am really going to try to get a hold of some seed/air tubers myself, these just seem to be too good to pass up on.

So the tubers look something like this:



And the plants/vines look something like this, looking at it you would almost think it's just a weed:




Air tubers:

Edward Norton wrote:My dad harvested quince when I was a kid and made the most amazing jelly - right up there with crab apple. This was back in the late 70's and early 80's when they seemed to be everywhere.  I guess they went out of fashion - don't seem them in such abundance. I guess people are reluctant to grow a fruit that requires some kind of processing to eat.

Most definitely high on my list of fruit bushes to grow. I remember them flowering for months on end, got to be good for bees. They're also a great place for small birds, providing a dense well protected thicket and a safe place to nest.

And they were flowering quinces? Or ordinary quinces? Even the latter typically needs processing unless you live in a Mediterranean climate OR grow one of the rare varieties from Russia/Ukraine that are hardy and still grow to be edible raw. But I am guessing you are talking about the flowering quinces like this thread is about. Still some of the new flowering quince varieties like "Darius" and "Rondo" are actually said to be edible in their raw state and if so wouldn't even need to be processed. And I still think flowering quince can likely be made into a nice moonshine/spirit if fermented raw, maybe even as a wine or cider..?

Ioana Hotea wrote:

Anton Jacobski Hedman wrote:

I also live in Europe and would love to try growing these as well, though my climate is near the northernmost possible range of peaches already. Still trees grown from Italian/Spanish grocery store peaches/nectarines grow well enough here. I am pretty sure these blood peaches are a bit more hardy than the Mediterranean varieties? Unless their origin is from the US deep south. It's sad that we have lost so much of the genetic diversity of peaches that the Native Americans had, many of their varieties were probably quite cold hardy and better adapted to more humid and temperate climates.

Btw there are also European red peach varieties that are easier to get ahold of. In France in some areas they grow blood peaches in between grape vines, they call them "Peche Sanguine" and "Peche de Vigne".

Example of a place selling Peche Sanguine: https://www.meillandrichardier.com/pecher-sanguine-vineuse.html

You can probably find a nursery in France willing to send you one of these trees. Even some of those that don't list your country but list others like Germany, Portugal etc can probably send you the tree if you order via email. I mean you are within the EU right?

Edit: Of course these would still not taste the same as Indian Blood Peaches as they are of a different stock/origin that both happened to be selected for more attractive red flesh fruits.

Yes, I know about the European varieties, peches sanguine, and also intend to buy a Sanguine de Savoie peach tree, there are nurseries that deliver in all EU countries. It would be interesting to compare the French blood peaches to the American ones. From what information I have come upon, in France these peaches date back to the 18th century, so the US varieties are a little bit older. But there is not much information available on the subject of parentage, if the varieties are related to each other. In the 1700s France the probability of either original Chinese peaches or the American Indian Blood peach to arrive and to be planted is quite equal. From what I know from history, the French were avid collectors of exotic plants and liked also the experiment (the modern strawberry for example was born in France).
Anyway, I will try the Sanguine de Savoie peach this spring, I hope to get a potted young tree that will fruit soon and I will post here for sure my impressions on the fruit, but in an year or so..
Best wishes,
Ioana

Oh ok, I see.

And yeah I also thought that it wouldn't be impossible for the French blood peaches to originate from seeds from Indian/American blood peaches. Would be fun to hear your impressions about it for sure. Btw I am pretty sure that importing uncertified seeds into the EU is technically illegal, so sending seeds by mail from say the US would be illegal, technically. Of course nobody really gets punished for anything like that, and on top of that most seeds will arrive intact anyway.

Ioana Hotea wrote:
I happened to get some lily bulbs form US and other seeds with no problems. But unfortunately it is prohibited to import bare roots fruit trees from nurseries from US to EU under normal conditions and the nurseries that carry heirloom varieties such Indian Blood are rare and and are not authorized for export.
This is why I hope very much  that, if conditions are suitable, you could send me some kernels to propagate myself. I hope to get at least one viable seedling and to further propagate it here so it would become a variety available in EU also. I grew up in the countryside and had a wonderful fruit forest at my late grandparents, and now I have my own little orchard with 20+ fruit trees that I love to care for. It is such a joy to see them grow, flower and ripen their fruits. I hope to soon add this wonderful variety to my garden and in time to share it with friends and family. It’s such a pity that delicious and healthy heirlooms like this are so rare and virtually unknown to most.
All the best,
Ioana

I also live in Europe and would love to try growing these as well, though my climate is near the northernmost possible range of peaches already. Still trees grown from Italian/Spanish grocery store peaches/nectarines grow well enough here. I am pretty sure these blood peaches are a bit more hardy than the Mediterranean varieties? Unless their origin is from the US deep south. It's sad that we have lost so much of the genetic diversity of peaches that the Native Americans had, many of their varieties were probably quite cold hardy and better adapted to more humid and temperate climates.

Btw there are also European red peach varieties that are easier to get ahold of. In France in some areas they grow blood peaches in between grape vines, they call them "Peche Sanguine" and "Peche de Vigne".

Example of a place selling Peche Sanguine: https://www.meillandrichardier.com/pecher-sanguine-vineuse.html

You can probably find a nursery in France willing to send you one of these trees. Even some of those that don't list your country but list others like Germany, Portugal etc can probably send you the tree if you order via email. I mean you are within the EU right?

Edit: Of course these would still not taste the same as Indian Blood Peaches as they are of a different stock/origin that both happened to be selected for more attractive red flesh fruits.

According to this article the main commercial use of flowering quince fruit in Latvia is making juice, juice concentrate, syrup and candy, while at a smaller scale it is used to make wine, cider etc. I guess ice cream flavoured with this might be quite a treat too:

The flowering quince hasn't been cultivated for much time as of yet. Processing started only in the 1970s, with manufacturers making juice, concentrate, syrup and candied fruit.

While smaller businesses make wine, beer and cider out of quince, and individuals use it for making cakes, pastries, ice cream and other delicacies.

I would be for sure interested in buying flowering quince juice concentrate lol, would potentially be awesome for making hard candy or an easy cider/wine/liquor from. Hopefully one day this plant will start popping up more in northern temperate climate orchards. Well, maybe I shouldn't say that until I get a chance to try the fruits from my own bushes personally.

Eino Kenttä wrote:There is an american Zanthoxylum species too, isn't there? At least plants from the nortern parts of its distribution are supposed to be hardier than the asian species. Don't know if seeds are available outside north america though.

I have a bunch of Z. piperitum seeds stratifying in the fridge at the moment. Exciting to see if they grow!

I believe the American species is toxic and/or only have medicinal value, not really so much useful as a spice. Where did you get the Z. piperitum seeds from, Ebay? By your name I am guessing you live in Finland(Or Estonia). Do you plan to try growing this plant outside?

Judith Browning wrote:No peaches this year...too many freezes after the bloom.  
I'll update this thread when I have some...

In the meantime if anyone wants to guide me through taking scions I would be happy to learn so I could share them rather than depending on fruit set.  I know it's late for this year but maybe I could take some cuttings when I prune next winter?

You can definitely grow peaches from cuttings, I am in fact surprised that people haven't been asking for scions/cuttings here so much. It's a good way to preserve a tree's unique genetics and take them with you to a new place, the roots of a tree grown from cuttings might not be as strong as that of a seeded tree but almost all trees bought in nurseries are already grown on cloned rootstock cuttings anyway. As long as you use sterile soil/medium, damp but not too wet soil/medium, not too compact of a medium, rooting hormone, enough light and warmth and put a plastic bag on top AND keep fungus gnats away(fungus gnat larvae destroy cuttings) they have a very high chance of rooting them successfully. With peaches I've found that they especially need to be rooted with hardwood cuttings as the softwood ones rot way too easily, so late fall/winter is a good time to take those I guess.

Ioana Hotea wrote:
Hello Judith and everyone!

I’ve red your old post on blood peaches and the topic on propagating them from stones and I would like very much to try this myself. I have tried finding indian blood peach trees (freestone or clingstone) seedlings or grafted but I live in Europe and didn’t have much luck.
I know that sending stones overseas is a little more complicated than sending them inland but I would very much like to ask you, if you will have peaches this next season, to send me some stones and I will, of course, support all the costs involved. I really wish to have them in my small orchard (I live in a 7b climate) and is very frustrating not being able to find these varieties anywhere.
Wishing you all all the best, and a wonderful next next season!
Best wishes,
Ioana from Romania

I know it's not allowed legally in many places but when you send seeds by envelope they usually arrive intact in most places, customs don't have time to go through all envelopes to see if there is something mildly illegal like seeds in them. If you are worried about pests coming with the seeds you can sterilize the seeds with hydrogen peroxide, bleach, white vinegar etc. And in the case of peaches the actual seed is on the inside of the pit, so it's extra safe from any pests.