Lauri Johnson

Riona Abhainn wrote:Idea:  What if it was composted and used to feed plants that you aren't directly eating, like shade trees?

Riona,

You may be on to something. Composting normally breaks down toxins, so it may be enough to use for shade trees safely. I'd look up information until my eyes bled to be sure it's safe. Ok, maybe not THAT much looking, but I am a bit paranoid.
It's the alkaloid component that does the damage and lingers the longest, I think. I honestly don't know if composting would do it, but safer with shade trees than food.

Hi John,
I just purchased land on the California/Oregon border and found out it's pretty well covered in Poison Hemlock.  Everyone here says DO NOT BURN IT. The fumes are as toxic as eating it. This is my first rodeo with the nasty stuff, so I may be overreacting due to inexperience, but I'm betting your neighbors would really appreciate you not putting that in the air. My own Grandmother nearly died because she drove past a prescribed burn that was full of Poison Oak. It got in her lungs. It's a whole lot less toxic than Hemlock and a few others.

The best answer I've gotten is to bag it up and send it to a landfill. It will supposedly decompose in the bag and the toxins will dissipate over time, without harm. I hope that's true.

As far as Bokashi, no clue. The seeds are the most toxic part of the plant, if my info is correct.

The water barrel may just give you a large amount of poisonous water to contend with. Hemlock toxin can survive for 3 to 5 years after it dies (I think).

The bioreactor is well outside my scope of knowledge, so I'm useless on that one, sorry. Sounds awfully cool though.

I'd be afraid I'd kill a bunch of worms and still have a problem.

I hope this helped, or at least gave you something to look up.

John Warren wrote:I know this is an older post, but I've been thinking a fair amount recently about what I might try to do with some unwanted toxic plants that seem to be growing pretty rampantly on our land. Particularly ones which I'm concerned might resprout from being chop and dropped since that is the obvious answer or put into compost even if done before going to seed (but especially after).  

So far, I think the most likely options I have come up with are:

1) Gather up as much of the plant material as possible and pack it into a retort for making biochar. No chance that will resprout, and should easily break down the toxins. I think a properly designed kiln should burn clean enough you wouldn't need to worry about breathing it (not sure if burning hemlock is typically dangerous like poison ivy is?). But maybe need to wear a well fitted and properly rated mask just in case?

2) Move a 55 gallon barrel with sealable lid out to the area to be cleared and begin packing it in and layering for a bokashi fermentation, which I am assuming would safely break things down (including seeds if necessary). Would be ideal to double check that assumption though that the fermentation process breaks down the toxins.

3) Similar to #2, but instead of bokashi just pack it in the barrel and then fill the barrel with water to let anaerobic bacteria set to work that way.

4) Can worms eat poison hemlock? (I've wondered the same for poison ivy and other similar plants too.) If so, perhaps one of the simplest options would be to try something like a Johnson-Su Bioreactor, but filled with problematic plant materials rather than leaves.



I made a very similar comment recently on a post in the fungus section of the forums.  I guess my go-to ways for getting rid of problem materials are pretty standardized... but in this scenario I do find myself left wondering if there is any danger of the toxins remaining after fermentation.  Or in the case of #4, whether I'd be killing all the worms in my experiment...

Donna Lynn,

Thank you for posting so much detail. I'm bad at details while I'm typing. I think I've seen his videos. I like the Greenstalk idea, too. Keep us posted on the success of the spring planting, please.  I really like the house ideas too.

Anne Miller wrote:Thank you, Lauri, for the information.

After you posted I put Kratky into eBay and found I could buy 80 net pots though I only need six.

I am still thinking of a solution though I happened to be putting something in the trash and saw 7 pudding cups which will might be a substitute for the net pots once I add some holes.

If I make cardboard rings for the mason jars I might have found a solution without spending any money.

Anne, that's brilliant. Good thinking!  I hadn't thought of it and recycling is way better than purchasing more plastic. Thank you.

Constancia Wiweru wrote:

Lauri Johnson wrote:I tried growing salad. In jars. It worked.  I found the Kratky Method ... I now have salad all winter...

I just ❤️ Permies because I learn so much.
I googled it and want to try it, too. Did you buy the inserts? Are they necessary or can you just use mason jars?

Hi Constancia,

Yes, I bought the inserts.  Net pots. They're needed to support the plant from seed through to plant. I use sphagnum moss to fill the net pot and wick water to the seedling until the roots grow down. I haven't figured out how to do it without them. Look up the Kratky Method, I know I'm leaving stuff out.

Anne Miller wrote:Hi. Lauri, welcome to the forum!

Can you tell me how you make the Kratky Method work for you?

I have six Spider Plants I am growing in water though I need to find some better containers.

What kind of containers are you using?

Hi Anne, thank you!

The Kratky Method is fairly simple, although it was designed for Hawaii's climate. I just figured (and hoped and prayed) my house temperature would be sufficient to keep plants happy.  We keep it a bit cooler than most, I can't handle being overheated.
I use regular mouth Mason/Ball jars and a 2" net pot. Net pots are available on that really big shopping site that starts with "A", or on the other big site with auction type activity that starts with "E" (I wouldn't want to swear here)
Wide mouth jars are a bit easier to refill, and you'd want a 3" net pot. I haven't found a more permies way to do this yet.
Please measure your jar's mouth, I might be off with the sizes.
There is a particular fertilizer used, MaxiGro. If you googled Kratky method, it's the one used there. I imagine that a good compost tea, diluted, could be used in place of the chemical fertilizer, but I haven't tried anything else yet.

Your spider plants will probably love the net pots,as they're accustomed to water. It might be a bit difficult to get the roots into/through the pots, and I'd skip the fertilizer for them.  I have tons of spider plants because I keep potting up the babies. They're all in soil.  I'm experimenting with the dummies version of landracing the seeds.

I tried growing salad. In jars. It worked.  I found the Kratky Method a couple of years ago and thought it was worth a try. I now have salad all winter, and winter is pretty harsh here. I do use grow lights, but I don't have a proper greenhouse yet. They're technically houseplants, right? They're in the house! Between that and sprouts, I don't lack for veggies in my winter diet.