Dusty Ezell

I did a walkthrough today and the most vigorous of the grafted plantings (black walnut) do not have large mounds covering the root collars. I have acidic soil already, but might consider vinegar were the species acid tolerant. I'm not completely against commercial poison but overall I do not want additional inputs to the process, natural or otherwise.

For now I'm considering a 2 step approach where I simply press down the ant mound in the 6 or so inches surrounding the sapling. While doing so I noticed a lot more movement in the stem than I like and I do believe that the ant mounds are not helping the rooting and stability of the saplings. If regular compaction doesn't satisfy me later in the summer I will consider simply watering the area heavily to disrupt the colony. Neither approach would be feasible in a multi acre planting that I don't live adjacent to. Even on my 2 acres the watering would require jugs and a wagon, but this effort might be worthwhile in the heat of the summer.

Eventually I want to find a "do nothing" approach that is suitable for my climate so that I can keep up a large area with little help.

This was one of my first attempts at planting and I have since swapped to simply using a dibble bar as the digging and mounding is quite labor intense. As this doesn't create a raised safe zone during heavy rains I suspect the ants will not prefer those locations as strongly.

The dibble bar is worth mentioning twice. The dibble bar is not compatible with large root balls, however bareroot saplings have noteworthy upsides and the dibble bar has a poetry to the 3 movements needed in the simplest plantings. Bareroot saplings can be produced in large quantities from seeds and are cheaper when purchased. The only downside is being set back 2 or 3 years compared to planting a larger tree, but I'm young enough to believe I have the time and old enough to know that spending a ton of money for a quick garden of Eden fantasy isn't sensible. I'm excited about this approach for a scalable DIY propagation and forest planting, and will be posting more about this in the coming years I'm sure.

I live and plant in a lowland area. When it rains the ants build up to escape the water level, which naturally pushes them towards my tree plantings which I've mounded up slightly during planting (dig a shallow hole, drop the root ball in. Cover with soil).

Should I worry about ant beds covering root collars? Their beds are sort of aerated, and I've had them build nests right up the plastic tubes which hasn't killed the trees. Yet.

If I should worry, what is the least effort for managing them? Vinegar seems to be the magic ant remover.

I found this thread after posting. https://permies.com/t/13784/permaculture/Permaculture-Potting-Soil

I live in an area that's dominated by pine and floods every two or three years. The floods wash away what floats and deposit a fair amount of sand and clay. I'll look a little harder for caches of leaf mold though.

I try to avoid buying anything, unless I'm buying back my time at a good price. I want to find ways to use my dirt to start seeds and fill nursery pots with the minimum inputs.

Potting soil recipes are usually 3 things: sterile organic matter for water retention (peat/coir), an aerator (pearlite), and something to feed the plants (compost).  

I live on a creek with a small band of mature trees along it's banks. So sand and clay are easy to source. The sand is quite fine which is not an ideal aerator. I can't produce enough compost to match my ambitions in the near term. Biochar has been shown to be a good seed starter for some plants.

I'm thinking a blend of biochar, compost, clay and sand could work well in the short term, and in the long term I could build hugel beds and pull soil from them.

Does anyone have any experience or insight to offer in this department.

Datura is a weedy flower that is good at removing other heavy metals. Perhaps you could use it like a cover crop, dispose of the biomass, then retest next year.
https://www.ijsr.net/archive/v4i5/SUB154732.pdf

Betsy Carraway wrote:Thanks for all of that, D!!  

I have some questions though:  Ginger is on your list for Ohio!  But not a word about it.  Is this the regular Chinese ginger, and I guess freezing doesn't kill it?!?  

And, for the Southeast (where I live) - you have Okra: this is an annual plant, right?  Just checking; the list has mostly perennials on it...

Also you mentioned "magnolia fruit"...what the heck?!?  Will you please give a link to this, or more info? I am aware that the red seeds were used by the Cherokee and others as a febrifuge, but never heard of the ovary as a "fruit" as in, Edible; at what stage?  Cooked?  Eager to know this!!

Thanks, Betsy

What part of the southeast are you from? I've been looking to network with other permies from the region.  I'm in Central Mississippi near Alabama.

Okra was probably introduced to the South from somewhere like Ethopia. I believe watermelons, colards and a few other Southern food staples were as well. Corn, squashes, and beans are the annual food crops native to the region. I believe sweet potatoes as well. Peppers and potatoes hail from South America.

I haven't heard of magnolia fruit being edible, but I read a blog where someone had pickled various kinds of magnolia leaves with good results. I have a few Magnolia Grandiflora near my property in the right of way I plan to transplant soon, they have the largest leaves and flowers in North America.

I've got some LSU groundnut tubers I searched high and low for. Of the native edibles, I'm most excited about these as they are nitrogen fixers with tons of vining foliage. Ironically I moved back to my hometown recently and there are just tons of native groundnuts on the property.

Anne Miller wrote:The OP said he has cedar growing on his property.

Would using cedar rather than treating wood be better?

I'd definitely prefer to build it all out of cedar. Love that scent! I've found 3 fairly large cedars so far that I'll likely harvest, but that will only get me so far. I'll probably leave the largest and oldest out of respect for something much older than me. I figure I can make a lovely garden shed/workshop out of them.

Mostly I was bothered by the notion that I needed uncommon wood, or a pressure tank to create wooden structures that could withstand the critters and the elements, and I wanted to share what I'd found in a research paper. Which incase I didn't say clearly elsewhere: borax soaked lumber coated in copper naphthene has excellent rot resistance, and is something that an average DIY'er can reasonably achieve affordably.  The borax leaches out over time, but the oil based copper coat keeps it inside the wood. Interestingly, the borax seems to transport the copper deeper. Borax and copper are minimally impactful on the environment as far as treatments go. Of course tung oil and charring are more natural alternatives.  

Timbor also seems to be a good product for similar applications it just doesn't penetrate as deeply. Maybe that doesn't matter much since the threats to the lumber do come from the outside.  

John C Daley wrote:Fair point, but if you compare treating you own wood, with purchasing concrete or treated timber stumps
you may find the purchase a good use of debt and time.
By using your own timber on top of the stumps you could have the deck set out in a week perhpas.
What do you think?

I do appreciate what you're saying, and I've rolled around what you're saying quite a bit. My present assessment is that I can build smaller and quicker at roughly the same expense. Or I can build more over a longer period, while accumulating tools instead of materials. My plans at present are to build a small deck coming into the home using bought materials. I really need it before the rainy season comes along for safety reasons (and domestic tranquility). Plus I should probably be familiar with modern building methods before trying to fly off into advanced woodworking and all.

Regarding deck construction. I've rolled over using traditional joinery and all of that, but, as you mentioned, failure of a structure could be catastrophic. I will definitely use metal brackets and fasteners on the structure and the metal brackets that raise supporting beams mounted in concrete. The last thing I need is a big accident during a family BBQ.

Since I have a good chainsaw and trees already, the cost saved on just a few 6''x6''x12' posts basically compensates the chainsaw milling equipment and a few gallons of boracare and copper. The cost saved from joists and decking for the back deck could be put towards a planer.

Of course I'm not really factoring my time into all of the calculations, but the satisfaction of doing it myself carries some weight. I do want to be cautious of being overly ambitious and stubborn tho, so I'm trying to make sure that my approach is sensible, even if more labor and time intensive.

L. Johnson wrote:Had I the resources and time in your situation this is what I would do. You may have a different take, but since you're asking for ideas...

I would try to find some field stone large enough to support the deck (or pergola) as a foundation. I would spend a lot of time choosing the best rocks and then try to pull a Mr. Chickadee:

As far as the wood itself goes, I would try to find the best naturally rot/bug resistant wood available to me. Maybe that is cedar. Maybe it is cypress. Maybe it's just cherry (wow a cherry deck).

I would probably char it, or maybe just the underside. I don't know what happens when you char things other than cedar though.

If at all possible I would build a roof so that rain and sun exposure is limited.

Lastly I would expect to do yearly maintenance on the deck/pergola.

For the last reason especially I wouldn't build a large deck. I'd keep it as small as possible while still allowing me to do what I want on it.

I think there may be wild cherry on the property. A cherry deck would be lovely. :)  

I'm going to have to roll this one over some. I'm trying to find a reasonable middle ground between land art and construction. Since it's more an art building going fully natural and using traditional joinery on a pergola makes sense.  I've looked some into traditional joinery and such and this is all pretty interesting to me.

I'm not sure where I'd source good stones though. I have access to sandstone, but I don't think it's compares to stones like granite for construction purposes.

C. Letellier wrote:Do you live some place you can get black locust lumber?  Borate spray it for termite protection and a tiny bit of fire protection and its natural rot resistance should do the rest.

I mostly have sweetgums, oaks, a hickory, birch, pines and cedars on the few acres around my home. I also have 100 acres of pine that's almost ready to be clear cut at my disposal as well.

I looked at Black locust at your suggestion, and it is an interesting wood. I'll keep my eyes open for some on the property, and I'll probably plant a few. Maybe I can make something from them when I retire.