Victor van Dalen

Hi Abraham,

Thank you for your reply. And did you do the exact design like described in the article? How deep did you dug? And did you add compost?

In the article is mentioned that he waited to plant at least 6 months. Did you do this as well?

Thanks!!

Abraham Palma wrote:

Victor van Dalen wrote:We are thinking to apply the method with sunken beds described on this page:
https://treeyopermacultureedu.com/chapter-9-earth-working-and-earth-resources/sunken-beds/

Any thoughts on this?

I am trying them.
https://permies.com/t/175744/permaculture-sites/permaculture-projects/Project-Gardens-Orchard-Dignity

Beware I barely can irrigate. It has helped us a little, I'd say it extends water like a 30-40% more. Still not enough to stand against a scorching sun and a persistent draught with high temperatures. We need to stack more measures.

We are thinking to apply the method with sunken beds described on this page:
https://treeyopermacultureedu.com/chapter-9-earth-working-and-earth-resources/sunken-beds/

Any thoughts on this?

Hi See!

Well we are using the fossil water hundreds meters below the ground. There will be water available for the coming 100 years. Therefore we want to use the water as less as possible.  We actually have a big water reservoir where soon ducks will be brought to. In time we want to add fish to the reservoir as well.

Thank you for your other advice, I will look into it!

See Hes wrote:Just as my 5 cents:

You say you have unlimited water due to a deep well.

This is not right, you will be taking part of the overall existing groundwater depletion because you might end up to go deeper and deeper to get water.
This means you take the chance for your trees to raise the groundwater table forever.

The rest of your project is a fantastic idea and challenging.
Veggies, you could grow everything in Greenhouses with evaporation cooling and solar energy.
Check Aquaponics, instead of investing in fertilizer you have fish who does this job.
Even the fish will not be profit but you can breaking even and grow your veggies for free. (2nd class or unsellable veggies are fish feed as well - Tilapias)

In public are many characters who green the desert, just see what Geoff Lawton did or see why (nowadays domestic) animals an essential role playing, when it comes to re greening the desert is Allan Savory another Name to look after...

the best of luck with your project..

Hi Matt,

We do have 50 chickens and around 25 sheeps here. They are located like 200 meters from the plot. We are planning to use the manure for composting. Also, we have let the sheeps walk around the plot.

Matt McSpadden wrote:Hi Victor,
Welcome to Permies!

I don't have any experience with your climate as mine is fairly cold and wet in comparison. However, I would suggest that maybe you look into some kind of livestock. I know you say the dream/plan is for larger scale vegetable production, but livestock can compliment vegetable production in so many ways. Not to mention, it can provide a second source of income, so all your eggs are not in one basket.

The end goal is to have a big-scale vegetable/herb garden where the harvest can be used in the kitchen to feed employees who are working here. We will as well plant trees and shrubs to increase soil fertility, grow biomass, create shade and break the wind. Also, a food forest will be added next year, when we gained more knowledge. We have unlimited access to water due to the deep well we are using, but we try to use the least as possible of course. These few beds are the first trial and error. So for these first beds we were questioning how to deal with the grass that's there now. Should we plow it? Should we lower the beds by digging them out? etcetera..

Thank you for sending the posts, I will have a look at them!

Nancy Reading wrote:Hello Victor and welcome to Permies!
You certainly have a blank sheet when it comes to cultivation there.
You say your aims are to have a vegetable garden there. Is this to feed yourself or to sell/exchange for profit? How reliable is your irrigation/rain?

There are lots of good examples in the greening the desert forum so I would have a good browse in there for techniques that seem to have worked. I also like these two threads from Africa. I know they are not local to you, but both have some really interesting techniques for more arid and hot climates:
elementary school and eco village
Rufaro's market garden thread

I look forwards to seeing your progress.

Hello Everyone!

I just registered to Permies and this is my first post . My name is Victor and I am from The Netherlands. I am living in the Desert in Egypt, 400km south of Caïro. We are starting a permaculture vegetable garden in this arid land, which will be a challenge! I have been reading a lot about permaculture but find it very hard to make a decision on how to start with the first "trial" beds. I would be very grateful if there were people who are willing to share their opinion or experiences on the below matter.

The plot of land we work on is covered with grass and some weeds for about a year or so (with the use of sprinkler irrigation). The percentage of sand is extremely high. We want to start with 20 beds next to each other of 1,20m wide and 10 meters long. My questions: How to start the beds in this poor sandy soil? First plow everything or not? Dig and make the beds below the main surface? Any tips on soil-improving vegetation in this type of land?

I have added some photos of the plot.

Thank you very much for your replies!! If you are missing some info please let me know!!