Aine Klein

Chris McClellan wrote:Aine,

I have run the Gamera for a few seasons in my own house and installed several with different mass bench configurations. /snipp

Ah, thank you so much for the reply! And in fact it was your video, which had me stumble upon the Gamera in the first place :D :D For how long do you run your Gamera per session/per day?

I was planning to come back and update, when everything is finally finished. It has taken a while, and we are still not fully done, as in the final touches are in the process right now. Painted the wall and under the cupboard yesterday (2nd coat planned today :P). Under the cupboard will be for wood storage. We will be hunting for paint behind the stove next. First thought had been to instal fireboard, but that wall is a solid very thick rock wall with plaster over it, and it has proven to be perfect as is. The heat from the camera warms the rock wall, with the kitchen on the other side, so not an outside wall. This way the wall itself stores some heat too, but I want fire resistant paint, and I want a terracotta colour to match the bench and floor tiles, which we still need to get hold of. It will look so nice once all is finished! ^______^



The building has taken time, also as we had to rebuild to some degree (my poor friend has been a fantastic sport!). As I could not find slabs to fit the measurements I wanted, we decided to pour concrete slabs for it. That was not a good idea... Nothing exploded, but when I fired the Gamera up, I heard a loud pop. I had done so much research, but typically the info that concrete can explode, had evaded me. When in my worry I searched specifically for concrete exploding - there the info was, and we decided to redo. As the bench was built already and we did not want to knock everything down, we went for a half barrel. Obviously the measurements were specific, so we had a half barrel made to fit the space. Was a bit more expensive, but it is really good strong sheet metal, which is nice. Then we filled the rest up with cob and a layer of pebbles imbedded in the cob. Think we got about 8 inches of cob. We put thin black limestone slabs over it (2.5 cm), which do not fit the bench fully, but we will finish the back with some wood still, probably, it's not so important as it's hidden under the cosy covering.




Of course, going from a full bell to a half barrel meant the plunger pipe had to come out. I tried it with the plunger pipe still in place, but it affected the draw badly. I had so much heat extraction, the pipe leading into the chimney never even got warm. Had the same issue actually, while it was still a full bell. The pipe would not get warm at all, and the whole system did not pull too well.

Now it all draws like a charm. We took the plunger pipe out, and the system works perfect. I bought the Gamera 7, and while it is rocketing along, I open all doors and let the warmth travel through the cottage. I run the Gamera for 2.5 to 3 hours usually. Once the stove has gone out, I start closing doors, according to how I feel the temperature dropping. The Gamera itself keeps radiating warmth for about 2 to 3 hours after it has gone out. Once the Gamera has stopped giving warmth - the bench kicks in. It takes about 5 to 6 hours from first starting the stove to feeling actual warmth in the slabs. They never get hot like the concrete slabs did when it was still a full bell, but it's actually faaaaaaar nicer this way. The heat is gentle - and constant. Currently I only need to have the Gamera running for those 3 hours a day - and have warmth in my main room (and bedroom above in the loft) for 24 hours +. I assume once outside temps will drop further and the cob has dried out fully, I will probably need to run the Gamera twice a day, 5 hours in all per day, is my current estimate, during the harder winter time (Ireland not having extreme winters, just around 0 degrees to -5 Celsius).

It's a bit of learning how to best start the Gamera, as I would think same goes for all rocket stoves, but I am now pretty good at getting it going with no smoke entering into the room (phew!) and once it's going, it works brilliantly. I can run it with 10 degrees C outside, no problem.

I always burn a bit of paper in the 'mini fireplace' we built, to warm the chimney pipe up, before starting the Gamera, just to help the system. That little mini fireplace does not get hot when the stove operates, most energy seems to be left in the bench, but it's a good place to put the kettle after boiling ^_^ (the little enclosure for the dog water will still get tiles on top)




It has been an adventurous process, which has provided me with unexpected concrete slabs for the garden :P but I am totally in love with the outcome. I only have one small shovel full of ash, only need about 4 to 5 logs, split, to currently have warmth for over 24 hours. The stove needs tending, so one must have the time to keep feeding, think that's the same for all rockets, but I do not mind that, for me that's grand. The Gamera does heat the whole cottage, but the bench does not, yet again, for my situation it works very well. If I'd want the whole cottage warm all day, I'd have to run the Gamera all day, so that would not be a great set-up, then I'd say I'd have to rather go for a different system. For next winter we do want to see how we can get something with thermal mass storage going for my daughter as well. I think a batch box will be more suited to her life style, so we got another adventure ahead, more learning, but is has been huge fun, and the outcome is just so rewarding!!

Thank you to everyone for advice and encouragement. It has helped me out heaps, and my friend has done such a great job building it all, so grateful to him. He has shown pictures to others and it has sparked a lot of interest in the area, but he says he'd not do it for anyone else, lol

Again thank you to everyone here, and also thank you to the guys from Gamera, they have been wonderful to deal with. One happy rocket stove owner here, and goodness, all my dogs are fighting over the bench, from the smallets (on the photo) to my 100 pound giant hehe :D :D :D

Hans Quistorff wrote:/snip

I love the idea of the arch, but the space between the beams is only 127 cm width by 130 cm height. I need the biggest Gamera as I am looking at heating about 70 sqm. I can and will reduce that floor space by closing doors, especially after the stove has gone out, but the thick walls also need some time to warm up, so more heat is important.

Also, I have my bedroom in the loft, so some rising warmth also matters, plus the Gamera 7 can be used to cook, so I will use it to boil water, which then adds more space needed above the stove.

Thank you so much for thinking about the dogs! That is lovely :D :D and I have considered that as well, and the stove will have a small wall going up next to it on the right, just for protection, so dogs can't accidentally get burned (and maybe to catch some more heat for storage).

I am extremely grateful for all the info and the ideas I was given here. It has provided me with much needed additional insight into the subject. Time to set upon building, hoping it will work out as planned! ^_^

@ Scott Weinberg

I think we might misunderstand each other, and like I said before, it is a lovely offer you made <3 It is just that I don't think there is much to draw. It is simply an L shape bench, with outer dimensions of around 200 cm by 180 cm. If I would pipe the mass and fill it with cob, it would have around 320 cm of horizontal piping, and around 80 cm vertical piping. It would have one 90 degree horizontal angle, then a 90 degree angle leading upwards, and another 90 degree angle attached to the vertical part, leading into the chimney (the Gamera can be build to specification with the exit at the back or either side, in my case the left side). As far as I am aware, the amount of bends I'd have is not beyond the limit for a flue pipe, so I could just make it a piped mass (which is what I had originally thought I'd do).

I came across the idea of a hollow bench though, which seems to me, would allow me to make better use of the hot gases created, compared to otherwise only being able to have a single pipe of about 320 cm horizontal, running through a cobbed mass.

The beams should not be a problem, piped mass or hollow mass, as the sides of the bench should only get warm, not near glowing hot. Most of the warmth, as far as I understand it, gets stored in the top of the bench, whether it is a piped mass or a hollow, and either method would not have the beams inside the bench, not even incorporated in the brick walls. The one beam mainly in question when it comes to the bench, would sit behind the bench wall, with some insulation as additional protection.

However, should I place the Gamera between the beams, due to the fact it is is even bigger than my now tinsy wood stove, in height and in width, I'd be worried about the sides of the Gamera getting far hotter than a bench side would get. My small woodstove gets obviously hot to the point it can not be touched, and I would think the same holds true for the Gamera. When in operation, my stove warms my wooden beams up by quite a lot, the beams being rather close to the heated metal. It is manageable, not to the point I am worried they'd suddenly combust, but still, I do not find it ideal. I honestly can not imagine a bench would get anywhere near as hot as a stove, and thus I decided it would be better to put the stove at the other end.

Additionally, if I'd place the stove where the chimney exit is, the stove unit would reach far into the room, as I have almost zero doubt that the old fireplace was concreted in, so no chance to just get an exit created lower in the chimney, unless embarking on a major undertaking. This then would create other space problems in the room.

Thomas's idea about a batchbox, basically masonry heater, would work in that space, again, as the sides should not get as hot as a metal stove, but I'd lose warm bench space, and thus definitely would prefer a bench.

My main 'issue' (aside from that I came to ask what materials to use would be best), is just if a hollow L bench with such dimensions could be worked, emphasis on L, I would imagine, and whether a stove that is said to be able to support 5 meters of piping through a filled in mass, would have enough push to fill a bench of such dimensions. Is an exit on the opposite end to the attached stove, to carry the cooled gases away, problematic in relation to the draw.
What depth would be advisable for such a bench, what height. I am not sure without testing, this can be found out, truly, reason I called the Gamera 'the wild card', as I don't think there is as much experience available to draw on, compared to people having built their own cores, and it also appears to me that most opt for piped mass. That Uncle Mud video shows a Gamera working with an L shaped single pipe filled in bench, and I think it says in the video the piping is a bit over 5 meters. I don't think he is working with a bypass, but not sure, and it is a flue system, so not certain that can just be straight applied to a hollow bench.

I'd be happy with a filled in piped bench (if I could water proof it against wet paws and fur), but I just worry 320 cm of single pipe will not utilise the same amount of heat storage as a hollow bench could, but maybe I am wrong?

@ Scott Weinberg
I sort of think the problem is that the Gamera is a bit of a Wild Card, as I first have to see how well it will actually perform?


@ Glenn Herbert
I very much like the idea, but I am not sure how to build that, as a hole would have to be cut into the flagstone, and then how to give that support inside. The idea I had about basically building a brick tower, would provide support, beneath and above, but then I could not create it as a 'plunger tube'.


@ Hans Quitstorff
Problem is that the current woodstove there is tiny. The Gamera is wider and higher, and I can not relocate the two wooden beams. I  am worried the heat from the Gamera could cause a problem/present a risk to the two beams. Otherwise I'd love to have the Gamera there, but these concerns are the reasons why I decided it probably needs to go the far end. In the least I'd have to raise the shelf, but it does not become clear from the photos, there is a recess, which also includes a beam, and it will mean a lot of rethinking there and additional work, to get that possibly ready for a higher stove to sit underneath.

-----
It's all a bit of a headache, but I have a lot more additional information/suggestions now, and will present it all to my friend, and see how we can best go about this, with the space we have available.
Thank you all so much for helping out with this, it means a lot to me to have found so much support here!

Scott Weinberg wrote:/snip

Ah, thank you so much for the offer! I tend to be someone who just does, without much gone ahead planning. I just envision something and set upon it. I am sure my builder friend curses that at times.. but so far we have managed just with me explaining what's in my head (phew).

This project is a bit different of course, but there are not that many dimensions as such involved. Just a L bench, 2m x 1,8 meter outside measurements, and I have an idea now how deep I could probably make it outmost. Most important for me was to find out what materials to use for the bench, as in bricks, mortar and flagstones. I do not need worry about building the stove, as I am planning to buy a ready made stove, and I think I will have to just see if the bench dimensions will work with it, creating enough draw, and if not, to reduce measurements until it works. With Thomas having suggested to run a pipe within the bell from the Gamera towards the chimney exit point, this sounds like it might help a lot, so will definitely implement that

Actually, I have just decided, it could be a great idea to leave that cavity behind the bench, and have the pipe coming in from behind, instead of going into the bell from above. Yes, it will make that part of the bell narrower, but the space behind the bench, I could turn into a stick storage. It should not get hot there, I'd work with a double layer of brick on that side. It would be a quirky solution. I'd still work with a brick tower to ensure the pipe can not be knocked, but all behind the bench. I think it could look nice, and still there is some thermal mass. Might also be better for the chimney draw/push of the Gamera, having the bell part narrower (hoping?)

We have come such a long way with this design, it is insane, again, thank you sooooooooo much!!! This has alleviated so many of my worries and headaches about this build It now really seems possible, instead of literally just a pipe dream haha

Yes, daughter brat has more space to play with (typically, I let her have the bigger place lol), and a batch box would probably be more suited. Far taller chimney as well.

Not sure I could get a thermometer here, would have to inquire, else I could not imagine it being that expensive to ship?

And of course there is also still the ancient ancient cottage.. which I have been eyeing up to turn into a dwelling again, as we are currently in the process of securing it, as the rock walls have been looking precarious. My builder friend fell on hard times due to no fault of his own and needed a place to stay, and I own another cottage, not on my property , which had been rented out, but it had emptied just before he ended in a pickle. So I let him move in there, and he does not pay me anything (for 2 years now). Instead we swap apples for eggs, with him helping me with projects on my small holding here, which I love, it's a nice arrangement, no money, just practical swapsies ^_^

However, eventually I will run out of jobs, so I have been thinking if I restore the ancient ancient cottage (which would not cost much), I'd move in there, as I could make it a real quirky space, above all with a rainwater collection system, which I'd adore. Obviously - that would get a rocket stove too! While builder friend would get to move into my current cottage, making sure he has a roof secured over his head, should I have to sell the other cottage, not on my property.

3 rocket stoves! I'd have to rename my place to Kennedy Space Center...

LOL, my head hurts from trying to draw it all...
Thought I could get away without embarrassing myself further with my none existing drawing skills!

But yes, that's what I had hoped I could do, to have it come down from the chimney bend into the bench That's where my idea of that brick tower tame into play first. To have the pipe run down within a brick tower, so to speak, to protect it from being knocked by the dogs.

Sealing it should be the same, maybe even easier? If I could use a brick tower, which would be one brick wider inside the bell then above, so stone slabs could be made to rest on the extra bricks around the tower.
But it would introduce extra mass into the bell, which might interfere with the pull?

I honestly fear my drawings don't make much sense to anyone by myself o.O and I just had a long pvp session in ESO, so my head is double fried -.-

I did not bother to draw the T junction, which I'd also have sitting within the tower part, so to speak, to not confuse matters further lol, nor the thermometer.

Wonder if I am complicating matters all around this way, and instead should just sacrifice bell depth for the part of the bench, with the pipe staying behind the bench...

And the Gamera site says 5 meters of horizontal piping, while if I'd have all of this piped instead of a bell, I'd probably only have 3 meters, maybe 3.50 m, but of course it is a bell, which no doubt asks for more push, I assume?

Oh, and had a look at the thermometer. I wonder how long shipping from the States to Ireland would take? Any experience with shipping to Europe?

Do you think I should still incorporate that T junction, to have a chance to warm up the chimney?

LOL, the fairies in Ireland are a bit different to Walt Disney's or the Victorian's version... No granny nor Tinkerbell vibes lol. They were quite feared, 'the good folk', like the Banshee, an Irish fairy, Ban - woman, shee -mound, 'woman of the mounds', and I know grown men who don't make stuff up, who have heard the Banshee cry before a death occurred (in one case it was the neighbour being murdered, and all the family heard the Banshee wailing, without knowing what was happening at the neighbouring farm). I live on the slopes of a famous fairy hill, looking over the valley upon another famous fairy hill. Can just make out the ancient stone graves/mounds in the far distance. It's an area steeped deep in fairy myth, so I take it as a huge compliment they decided to lump me in with that ancient fairy lot, although I am certainly not feared, just seen as a bit.. unusual... but I have been well embraced by the people here, they are quite fond of unusual, phew! Wonderful lot

Clay/sand mortar it shall be then ^_^ feels better to me compared to concrete anyway.

I am still uncertain about whether I could have the pipe inside the bell, instead of the opening being a hole in the brick. It would allow me to have the bench deeper. If I'd have to create a cavity for the pipe to sit behind the bell, I'd lose a lot of depth from the bench. The depth of the bell could then only be about 40, maybe 50 cms, and that would include the two brick walls cradling the hollow within. Would that be enough of a hollow? I'd be happy for the pipe to sit behind, already got an idea how to make it all look nice, just yes, it would not be as wide.