andy burgess

Andy Tynen wrote:Some ideas...

On the north end of the property, plant a closely spaced line or double line of tall conifers, to try to create a bowl to hold solar warmth.

That's a good idea, any suggestions for species of conifer? With my plan to grow apples, I think I need to stay away from Juniperus communis to prevent cedar apple rust.

Andy Tynen wrote:
An area of vineyard on the steep slopes between the grazing areas on the hill might work, on the south facing slope.

That's an excellent idea! I'd previously overlooked those areas due to the steep slope, but this would allow me to utilize those areas as well.

Andy Tynen wrote:
I really like the terraced grazing areas on the hill.

You might want to check your forest for potential forage plants, and introduce mushrooms and raspberries into the natural wooded area.

I know there are a few wineberries amongst all the brambles in the forest. I think raspberries would be good to have too.
I do have a stack of logs that I inoculated with shiitake, chestnut and nameko spawn. I have leftover sawdust spawn that I could put into some beds in the forest, too.

Thanks Andy for your suggestions.

Anne Miller wrote:Thank is a beautiful property.

Congratulations on your purchase.

I am glad you mentioned food forest as that is what your pictures are saying to me.

Here are some threads that might help you or others with that food forest:

Thank you Anne, I will check those out!

Timothy Norton wrote:Welcome to Permies!

It seems that you have quite the canvas of land to develop to how you see fit!

I'm rather new to this so I don't have much to provide but I am curious to why inground propane storage rather than an above ground?

I have an oil boiler so I'm not familiar.

Hey Timothy, thank you!

My wife and I think the tank would be somewhat of an eyesore. I may be able to get away with building an enclosure to hide it, though. We just have to position it at least 50 feet from the house for it to be up to code, I think.

John F Dean wrote:Hi Andy,

Welcome to Permies.

Hey John!

Thank you, glad to be here.

Thank you for your response, Andy!

Andy Tynen wrote:Beautiful property. Soil type?

I knew I was forgetting something. I've placed some soil in a mason jar with water and shaken it. Now, I'm just waiting for it to settle so I can see the proportions of sand, silt, and clay. The garden area had quite a few rocks when we had it tilled. From the few places I've dug into, my initial impression is that it leans slightly towards a clay-heavy composition, but I'll have a more accurate assessment once the soil in the jar has settled.

Andy Tynen wrote:If you use wood chip mulch, use the wood chips as floor covering in the chicken pen to get the wood saturated with manure. Without this step, wood chips take 2 or 3 years to break down and they pull nitrogen away from the plants.

I have around 8-10 inches of wood shavings in the hen house. Every month or so, I transfer the more saturated bedding to the run, and add new bedding on top. I do have some concerns with the run being located at the bottom of the property, that the bedding will retain moisture for extended periods. While it does tend to stay somewhat damp, there's no noticeable odor, so maybe that won't be much of an issue.

Andy Tynen wrote:Is the slope of the hill appropriate for grazing animals? A terraced, keylined slope would be very interesting but a lot of work.

I believe Mark Shepherd arranged rows of fruit and nut trees on either side of a narrow grass field to provide multiple grazing rows. Is there enough space in the flatter field area to plant multiple rows of trees?

The following picture is a sketch of what I was considering for the long-term goal for the hillside. The areas in red would be too steep for grazing animals.


There are areas of the hillside where the slope is very mild or even completely flat.



The area behind the house spans approximately 150 feet in width at its rear, narrows to about 100 feet closer to the house, and extends about 375 feet from the back of the house to the property's end. With a spacing of 25-30 feet between rows, I could potentially fit 3-4 rows of trees across most of this area. I would need to be careful about putting trees near the utility lines, or limit that area to dwarf trees. The southwestern area of the front yard might also have potential for various uses, given its south-facing orientation and relatively low slope. It's just not as much space as the back yard area. Here's a picture of the southwest yard, and you can see where the persimmon tree has coppiced.

Andy Tynen wrote:Peaches are a wonderful fruit but they require pesticide and fungicide spray every week to 10 days from just before blossom fall to just before harvest.  This will impact pollinators, so be sure you are OK with spraying before planting peaches.  If you do plant them perhaps separate them from other blooming plants.

I had no idea! I love peaches, but I would not want to spray, so we'll have to do without in that regard.

Hello everyone!

I've recently purchased a house and property in Ohio 6B and I'm seeking your advice for optimizing my land's potential and establishing a self-sustaining permaculture system.

Property Layout:

White line: property boundary.

Yellow lines: utility lines.

Green lines: contours.

Blue lines: waterways.

Dark green: forested areas.

Light green: grass and pasture.

Gray: stone, gravel and concrete.

Property Overview:

The property spans approximately 8 acres and occupies half of a valley, encompassing the south and east-facing slopes, along with the basin.

The climate here is humid sub-tropical, with monthly average temperatures ranging from 88° to 22°.

We experience an annual average rainfall of 48 inches.

Land Characteristics:

The western part of the property, consisting of the south and east-facing slopes, comprises an overgrown, mature forest with large hardwoods—predominantly Oak, Hickory, and Poplar—with scattered Maple, Locust, and Walnut trees. Brambles populate most of the understory of this forested area. The hillsides are fairly steep in some places.

The property's access road continues through to a neighbor's house to the north.

Although a creek marks the eastern edge of the property, it's an unreliable water source, typically drying up for around six months annually.

On the west side of the road is a drainage ditch that fills during substantial rainfall.

Prevailing winds usually flow in a northerly direction from the south, ascending the valley.

Structures and Features:

The house and other structures are positioned on the property's east side, nestled in the valley's bottom. This area predominantly consists of mowed lawn.

Electric and utility lines have been run to the house and neighboring properties, running along the length of our eastern boundary.

City water is connected to the house from the western side.

The septic tank is located southeast of the house, and I presume the southern field is the leach field.

Five crabapple trees are situated around the house. A variety of fruit trees are located north of the house—including pear, peach, cherry, plum, and two apple trees.

Adjacent to the fruit trees lies a 30'x60' vegetable garden.

At the eastern edge of the property is a small, flat-roofed building/barn on a concrete pad. We've converted the northern third into a poultry house, currently housing 16 hens, 5 ducks, and 2 geese. Their run is defined by temporary electric net fencing, which we rotate every 2-3 weeks. Considering its current position at one of the lowest points on the property, I'm contemplating relocating this structure to a more suitable area.

To the southwest of the house, a metal storage building houses the lawnmower, wood chipper, and various tools.

A sizable American persimmon tree south of the storage building was toppled by a windstorm this spring. It has now coppiced, so I'm seeking advice on its ongoing management as well.

Pictures:
This is the backyard at the beginning of the year, prior to us getting our birds and tilling the garden.





Property Goals:
My primary goal is to establish low-maintenance and low-input permaculture systems that can provide food and resources for my family. Given the property's more challenging features—such as the long, narrow area around the house, utility lines above the eastern side, seasonal creek, neighbor's driveway cutting through, challenging livestock shelter location, and more—I'm struggling to create an effective layout and establishing zones, and would like the advice of others.

Here are my goals:

Create a food forest/fruit and nut orchard near the house. Our aim is to cultivate apples, peaches, pears, almonds, blueberries, strawberries, raspberries, and hazelnuts, and we're open to experimenting with other suitable options.

Establish a small pond for ducks and geese to eliminate the need for frequent stock tank refilling.

Develop rotational grazing pastures for a future dairy cow, with the potential to accommodate additional livestock later on.

Design a low-maintenance vegetable garden. The high humidity during summer makes tending the garden challenging. I'm intrigued by Paul Gautschi's Back to Eden method using composted wood chips, but I'm open to other approaches as well.

Create a medicinal and culinary herb garden.

Establish self-sufficient feed sources for all livestock, minimizing the need for purchasing and shipping organic feed. Additionally, put in place effective storage methods for the winter stockpile.

Implement water management strategies for both livestock and gardens.

Install an in-ground propane tank to diversify our fuel sources. Any suggestions on its optimal location are welcome.

Locate a play area for my children.

Locate and construct a root cellar for effective food storage.

Long-term goal: Revitalize the forested hillside using Mark Shepherd's techniques from Restoration Agriculture and Water for Any Farm. This involves clearing out overgrown forest and brush, designing a master line/keyline system, establishing lanes for rotational grazing, digging swales, and planting larger nut trees such as chestnuts, pecans, walnuts, and hickories, full-size fruit trees like apples, pears and cherries, understory crops including grapes, kiwis, hazelnuts, berry bushes, and other perennial plants. This part of the project will likely take a decade, or two, to complete.

I'm looking forward to seeing your advice and insights as I work toward these goals.

Thank you in advance,
Andy