Search...
Home Subscribe
Pie
Home Subscribe
Recent topics Flagged topics Hot topics Best topics
Search...
Search within seeds and breeding Search permies
Advance search Google search
Register / Login
Energy efficient DIY wood stoves
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
DIY rocket mass heaters - instructional DVD set Purchase PIE (Permaculture Inner-Circle Elite) Building a Better World Book with earth bricks IC.org Clean with Cleaners You Can Eat - Free ebook
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nancy Reading
  • Carla Burke
  • r ranson
  • John F Dean
  • paul wheaton
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • Jay Angler
  • Liv Smith
  • Leigh Tate
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Jeremy VanGelder
  • Maieshe Ljin

Lofthouse moschata from Resilient Seeds

 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Has anyone grown these?

I planted mine the same day as I planted my maxima seeds (some my own seed, some saved from various purchased squash). The moschatas are one-third to half the size, at best, of the maximas. I was expecting the moschatas to go tearing ahead of everything else.

The soil the squash are planted in is the same for both varieties, except the moschata bed may be slightly more dense. Maybe that's all it is...?
 
Terri Pine
Posts: 24
1
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You can never tell what the Lofthouse seeds will do. Just be patient.
The main point of moschatas here (Gulf Coast) is that they survive the squash vine borers, which the maximas will not.  Also, some of them are sweeter and store longer.
 
William Schlegel
pollinator
Posts: 680
Location: Montana
255
I like...
forest garden trees
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Moschata plants are naturally a little smaller than Maxima plants.

I've grown Lofthouse moschata from both Resilient Seeds and directly from Joseph.

This year I am growing a mix of: Lofthouse moshata from my own saved seeds, a moschata cross from a friend in California, a moschata hybrid from territorial, and a moschata from native seed search. No matter the source the following are true: the individual seeds tend to be smaller, the cotyledens are smaller, and the plants start out a little smaller. On the plus side they do seem to do better with less water whereas maxima seems to need a little more.
20190629_090505.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20190629_090505.jpg]
My Moschata patch

Western Montana gardener and botanist in zone 6a according to 2012 zone update.
Gardening on lakebed sediments with 7 inch silty clay loam topsoil, 7 inch clay accumulation layer underneath, have added sand in places.

 
Joseph Lofthouse
author & steward
Posts: 7150
Location: Cache Valley, zone 4b, Irrigated, 9" rain in badlands.
3340
posted 5 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for the  grow report Jan: Maximas tend to be much larger plants than moschatas. Here's an example of mature plants at the same scale. Your estimate of 1/2 to 1/3 size is right on for species averages.

MaximaMoschata
(source)


From, Visual Guide To Identifying Squash

Landrace Gardening, author
Open Source Plant Breeding Forum, founder
Adaptation Agriculture: Video Course, Community, and Seed Share

 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I haven't grown moschatas in years, so I didn't remember a size difference.

I'll just let them do their thing then :)
 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yay! Got my first moschata flower today.

My maximas have been blooming for a while; many plants have four squash on them already, the biggest one is about 8" across. Looks like it's going to be a red kuri type. Those plants seem to be a little bigger and quicker to set fruit than the buttercup/kabocha ones.

I still haven't looked up characteristics of different squash species, but it's been suuuuuper interesting noticing the differences between the two I'm growing. For the last ten years or so I've only grown maxima varieties when I've grown winter squash.

Hopefully next week I'll have some time at work to read up on the different species, and then if any of the stuff I've been seeing still seems interesting I'll regale everyone with details.
 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Two days ago the first female flower opened. A second one yesterday, along with a male. I hand pollinated just to make sure. Lots of flowers coming up so I should have a few of each open from now on.

I hope the bees find the flowers :) They've been spoiled with my maximas - high leaf canopy with easy access to flowers. The moschatas have a much lower canopy - I can't actually see any flowers without digging around in the leaves.
 
William Schlegel
pollinator
Posts: 680
Location: Montana
255
I like...
forest garden trees
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My Moschata patch has a couple fruits forming already.
20190803_082743.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20190803_082743.jpg]
Squash forming
20190803_082657.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20190803_082657.jpg]
Squash 2
20190803_082647.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20190803_082647.jpg]
Moschata patch

Western Montana gardener and botanist in zone 6a according to 2012 zone update.
Gardening on lakebed sediments with 7 inch silty clay loam topsoil, 7 inch clay accumulation layer underneath, have added sand in places.

 
Joylynn Hardesty
master pollinator
Posts: 4957
Location: Due to winter mortality, I stubbornly state, zone 7a Tennessee
2119
6
I like...
forest garden foraging books food preservation cooking fiber arts bee medical herbs
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am growing Joseph's moschata for the first time this year. Are they usable as a summer squash?

'What we do now echoes in eternity.' Marcus Aurelius
How Permies Works Dr. Redhawk's Epic Soil Series

 
Joseph Lofthouse
author & steward
Posts: 7150
Location: Cache Valley, zone 4b, Irrigated, 9" rain in badlands.
3340
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:I am growing Joseph's moschata for the first time this year. Are they usable as a summer squash?



Yes. Taste profile is similar to a pattypan.

Landrace Gardening, author
Open Source Plant Breeding Forum, founder
Adaptation Agriculture: Video Course, Community, and Seed Share

 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:I am growing Joseph's moschata for the first time this year. Are they usable as a summer squash?



Every winter squash I've ever grown has been good picked immature.  I'll report back on these moschatas later on, once it becomes obvious which ones aren't going to make it before frost.
 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This was my biggest fruit a couple days ago

IMG_20190812_084937372.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190812_084937372.jpg]
 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
According to Joseph's squash species ID page in his website, moschata flowers are much larger than maxima.

Wow, are they ever!

This moschata flower completely covers my hand, versus a typical maxima bloom.
IMG_20190812_084707999.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190812_084707999.jpg]
IMG_20190801_110018633_HDR.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190801_110018633_HDR.jpg]
 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The unopened moschata flower buds are quite ornate, too, compared to the maximal.

IMG_20190808_102914818.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190808_102914818.jpg]
IMG_20190808_102952686.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190808_102952686.jpg]
 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My maximas go absolutely nuts rooting at the nodes. This one is one that I kept pulling up to admire :)  The root was about 8cm long a few days before I took this picture. Once it got side roots, I stopped bugging it.

By contrast, most of the moschata aren't rooting at nodes. The second picture is of the plant that's rooting the most.

IMG_20190726_115218373_HDR.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190726_115218373_HDR.jpg]
IMG_20190801_110228384.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190801_110228384.jpg]
 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Last comparison. Watching the two species side by side has been so much fun for me :)

The leaves on the maximas grow very upright so every bit of water on them can roll down the stem to the rooted nodes. This is great for me, since I don't water my squash.

The moschatas have much flatter leaves, so water rolls off the edges or evaporates. The nodes don't seem to root much anyway, though.

This has been a really wet summer, so nothing's been too stressed. The moschatas might wilt a smidgen more than the maximas in the heat. The leaves that wilt too far get dead bits on them where they got too baked. The moschatas have more of these than the maximas. Without stressing them further, I can't really say whether one performs better in dry conditions. We've had a bunch of rain this last weekend and now it seems like the temperature is cooling off, so I don't think I'll get a sense of that this year.

IMG_20190808_103122787_HDR.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190808_103122787_HDR.jpg]
IMG_20190808_103047262.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190808_103047262.jpg]
 
William Schlegel
pollinator
Posts: 680
Location: Montana
255
I like...
forest garden trees
posted 5 years ago
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My Moschata patch is maturing.

Lofthouse saved from Long of Naples influenced plants. Wonder if I should pick the one with orange on it?

Thai cross squash from a friend in California (with lofthouse as a possible parent)

Autumn's choice F1 from Territorial finally produced one recognizable squash

The Rancho Marques hasn't produced, but it was a long shot.
20190831_093748.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20190831_093748.jpg]
Autumn
20190831_105853.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20190831_105853.jpg]
Lofthouse and a light colored one
20190831_105940.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20190831_105940.jpg]
Thai cross
20190831_105726.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20190831_105726.jpg]
Autumn
20190831_093643.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20190831_093643.jpg]
Moschata patch
20190831_105909.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20190831_105909.jpg]
Lofthouse dark green
20190824_083726.jpg
[Thumbnail for 20190824_083726.jpg]
Thai from California

Western Montana gardener and botanist in zone 6a according to 2012 zone update.
Gardening on lakebed sediments with 7 inch silty clay loam topsoil, 7 inch clay accumulation layer underneath, have added sand in places.

 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
One of my moschatas is fasciated. Its drought tolerance is terrible (it's the wiltiest one in the foreground of the picture taken an hour after the sun went behind the mountain) and it bloomed waaaay later than any of the other vines and still hasn't had any female flowers. At least I don't need to worry about it pollinating anything I might be able to save seed from :)  I've been keeping it around because it's fun to look at.
IMG_20190826_074544054.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190826_074544054.jpg]
 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hmm.. the other two attachments keep getting dropped from my last post. Posting the other fasciation pic and wilty pic here...I hope
IMG_20190826_074603162.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190826_074603162.jpg]
IMG_20190828_180203422.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20190828_180203422.jpg]
 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Joylynn Hardesty wrote:I am growing Joseph's moschata for the first time this year. Are they usable as a summer squash?



I've had a couple immature ones now. They're very mild flavoured, so a better zucchini substitute than immature maximas, which have a pretty strong squashy flavour, I find. Nice texture: they stay firmer than zucchini when cooked, but not quite as firm as maximas.
 
Jan White
pollinator
Posts: 1455
Location: BC Interior, Zone 6-7
511
I like...
forest garden tiny house books
posted 5 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
About half of the moschata vines are really productive and the other half are duds. Everything's too tangled right now to count how many per vine, but I will later.

Unfortunately, they started blooming so late in the year I'll probably only e able to save seed from two or three squash. My maximas were unusually late to start blooming this year, too, so it's probably not the squashes' fault! Something environmental.
 
William Schlegel
pollinator
Posts: 680
Location: Montana
255
I like...
forest garden trees
posted 4 years ago
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
    Send
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I just baked a big long of Naples influenced Lofthousemoschata about a week ago. That necked squash trait is important. Note on the seed packet from that squash should be "grow again"

I baked it in a burn pile in foil after cutting off the seed cavity while we were camping on the garden land (spring break trip 2019 staycation). It's a lot of squash flesh per skin ratio. Easy to remove skin from.

Western Montana gardener and botanist in zone 6a according to 2012 zone update.
Gardening on lakebed sediments with 7 inch silty clay loam topsoil, 7 inch clay accumulation layer underneath, have added sand in places.

 
a fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool - shakespeare. foolish tiny ad:
Learn Permaculture through a little hard work
https://wheaton-labs.com/bootcamp
reply
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!
Similar Threads
More...