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wheaton laboratories

smoking, pot, hooch, drugs ....

paul wheaton

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Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

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posted 11 years ago

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I saw a sign at the university the other day. In fact, this sign appeared every 30 feet or so:

This is a tobacco and drug free campus

I guess I am shooting for pretty much the same thing.

I just never cared for any form of tobacco. I don't like the smell of smoking, or the smell of people that have been smoking. I do like the idea of people coming here that feel the same way I do: people that have no interest in tobacco of any kind, and like the idea of a site that doesn't stink of it.

As for pot, I've never tried it. I have no interest in it. I think it should be legal everywhere - and if it were legal on a national level, a state level, etc. I still like the idea of a pot free property. I think there are others in the same boat: maybe they tried it in the past and now they have other interests.

For now, even if you live in a state where it is legal, it is illegal on a national level. Just a little bit can bring a lot of grief to a community.

I know there are some people that enjoy pot once or twice a year. I suspect they can travel a path where they live here and vist some friends, elsewhere, to enjoy pot once or twice a year.

Once in a long while we will host a teacher that is a smoker. We have arranged a spot for them, far away, where they can take a smoke break.

Hooch has brought us drama. Go easy on the hooch, and definitely clean up after yourself. I am not banning hooch, but I have kicked about a half dozen people off the land for hooch issues.

Prescription drugs: I think that as the land gets divided, I like the idea that the use of prescription drugs will be used less on symbiculture land than on permaculture land.

recreational drugs: none.

no chewing tobacco or vape stuff.

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

R Scott

pollinator

Posts: 4020

Location: Kansas Zone 6a

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posted 11 years ago

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His land, his rules. Paul's concern about a vector is valid. One thing I was told as a kid by a state trooper, "Only break one law at a time." It is true, it is usually the second little law the get you with.

"You must be the change you want to see in the world." "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." --Mahatma Gandhi
"Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary, use words." --Francis of Assisi.
"Family farms work when the whole family works the farm." -- Adam Klaus

Mark Livett

Posts: 65

posted 11 years ago

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What is your stance on religion and politics?

Edit to add: Other than a tolerant attitude of course.

Cris Bessette

gardener

Posts: 912

Location: North Georgia / Appalachian mountains , Zone 7B/8A

posted 11 years ago

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I'm an occasional recreational drug user, I think cannabis is the best medicine on Earth.

I completely understand Paul's point of view, however.
His land, his rules. Pretty easy to understand.

Besides, the law can completely screw over land owners if they get in the sights of the drug war.

paul wheaton

author and steward

Posts: 52410

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

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posted 11 years ago

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I hope that those folks that are keen on pot find a community that is cool with that.

I suppose I am looking for people that fit into one of three groups:

A) people, like me, that just never wanted to try it

B) people that tried it at some point and now don't want any

C) people that have tried it, want to enjoy it some more, but will respect what I'm trying to do and won't partake on my land

For those that are looking for a community that is 420 friendly, I suggest you scope out ic.org

For those that could possibly qualify for A, B or C, I would appreciate it if you say something here.

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

Posts: 10

posted 11 years ago

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i understand. i will stay here on my own personal urban homestead where i can make the rules as i see fit 4 myself. it sounds to me like king paul and the montana empire so perhaps it is best to find a "420" community. thanks for all the great information. i found YOU exceptionally helpful with chickens and "hugelculture"

Cris Bessette

gardener

Posts: 912

Location: North Georgia / Appalachian mountains , Zone 7B/8A

posted 11 years ago

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This is not about "The Man" keeping a brother down, this is about exercising property rights.

I am a card carrying member of NORML, and I still don't let people smoke weed in my car. That's my right.

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posted 11 years ago

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ok.
as i said b4, "i understand. i will stay here on my own personal urban homestead where i can make the rules as i see fit 4 myself."

Beverly Temmer

Posts: 37

Location: Mukilteo, Washington

posted 11 years ago

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No smoking of any kind please! I'm allergic to it, both regular tobacco and pot. I cough and feel awful!

Thank you!

Ryan Barrett

gardener

Posts: 155

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posted 11 years ago

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Good plan; Keep things simple.

(I'd forgo a little hooch to visit the land, indeed!)

Random Stuff I do/like: 2matoes

Br. Curt Beardsley

Posts: 8

posted 11 years ago

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Anti tobacco folks kind of rile me up. Though, I do understand that they would not to live IN a house where others smoke tobacco. When outside it should be the right of folks to smoke. If someone who doesn't smoke doesn't like it, they can stand out of the way of the smoke or be at a distance. One needs to respect the rights of everyone. I agree with Paul that to allow pot at this time is only inviting trouble. Don't know much about Montana lawmakers, but until pot is legal it should be discouraged, especially when your trying to get the rest of the World on track to save our planet from destructive agricultural practices.

It would be a shame to me if a community get some good people simply because he does not want pot on the property, at this time. I haven't smoked it in 35 years but I would like to try it to see if it help chronic pain from fibromyalgia and sciatica. I thought of moving to New Mexico so I could find out. Can't do that right now.

Anyway, I'm ramblin' so will close.

Br. Curt

rowan james

Posts: 36

posted 11 years ago

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C) people that have tried it, want to enjoy it some more, but will respect what I'm trying to do and won't partake on my land

I'd be on the edge of this category - in that I have tried "it" and occasionally use "it" before bed as a sleep aid. . . (which maybe wouldn't be needed if I was living somewhere more quiet, hmm) - but I don't like to be around folks that are high, daily. it's always felt like a more personal headspace to me, more inward focused.

BUT, I fully respect Paul's right to make his land smoke-free, drug-free, etc. - his land, his rules, his vision.

and were anyone to look into the rights "law enforcement" enjoys relative to property confiscation, etc. - rights that are only going in one direction, fast, of late - then it makes complete sense to just steer clear of whatever drama might be tagging along.

really enjoying the extra threads you've planted here Paul, good to see folks working their own ideas/dreams/wishes, with you as the catalyst.

timely.

trust yourself. then you will know how to live.
~ goethe

Chia Olin

Posts: 30

posted 11 years ago

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Paul,
I agree with the vector, and I feel that Pot aka Cannabis is heavily misused. I do have a question...

Is there any exceptions for Medical Users? I.E. instead of pain relief for my achy body I take a tincture? or if someone else has a chronic pain or cancer they are battling... Phoenix tears has been saving lives out here in California

thanks

John Seay

Posts: 26

Location: Richmond, Va

posted 11 years ago

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I'm very much against the idea of recreational drugs. I really appreciate that there are others like me that are into "alternative" living. Everyone thinks that because I want to grow my own food and build a house out of mud that I must be some kind of hippie that smokes weed.

I'm 27 and never have tried any drug; including alcohol.

paul wheaton

author and steward

Posts: 52410

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

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posted 11 years ago

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Chia Olin wrote:Paul,
I agree with the vector, and I feel that Pot aka Cannabis is heavily misused. I do have a question...

Is there any exceptions for Medical Users? I.E. instead of pain relief for my achy body I take a tincture? or if someone else has a chronic pain or cancer they are battling... Phoenix tears has been saving lives out here in California

thanks

Ask me that question again in a year. Maybe for basecamp.

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

Chia Olin

Posts: 30

posted 11 years ago

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paul wheaton wrote:

Chia Olin wrote:Paul,
I agree with the vector, and I feel that Pot aka Cannabis is heavily misused. I do have a question...

Is there any exceptions for Medical Users? I.E. instead of pain relief for my achy body I take a tincture? or if someone else has a chronic pain or cancer they are battling... Phoenix tears has been saving lives out here in California

thanks

Ask me that question again in a year. Maybe for basecamp.

ok, thanks. I would not let this issue deter me away.

Mar Barak

Posts: 79

Location: NYC

posted 11 years ago

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This begs the question, what is the comm opinion of
herbals/medicinals?

If you want wealth, help others to grow wealthy.
Who said that?

paul wheaton

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Posts: 52410

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

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posted 11 years ago

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Marla Barak Sanders wrote:This begs the question, what is the comm opinion of
herbals/medicinals?

I think there is gonna be gobs of comfrey, mullein and all sorts of medicinal plants. And I suspect there will eventually be an uber-herbalist and a half dozen people keen on herbalism stuff.

Does that answer your question?

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

Mar Barak

Posts: 79

Location: NYC

posted 11 years ago

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Then there may have to be a list of acceptable
herbs because there are many plants that contain
all kinds of state altering chemicals. I understand the
common idea of marijuana but it may be legal some day and will have to be categorized. So, legality is
one issue. Toxicity to humans/animals is another...

If you want wealth, help others to grow wealthy.
Who said that?

paul wheaton

author and steward

Posts: 52410

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

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posted 11 years ago

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The biggest thing is that I don't want the war on drugs to show up on either property.

The second thing is: I just don't care for the smell of it.

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

Mar Barak

Posts: 79

Location: NYC

posted 11 years ago

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Its a saaaad thing that has happened to this herb. The reason that I am interested is because I identified more than three nightshades growing in the backyard. Comparatively, these are much worse. Sorry for harping but lastly, what if it were legal and medically Rx'ed?

If you want wealth, help others to grow wealthy.
Who said that?

Mar Barak

Posts: 79

Location: NYC

posted 11 years ago

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Oh, sorry, I see your answer in prior posts..

If you want wealth, help others to grow wealthy.
Who said that?

paul wheaton

author and steward

Posts: 52410

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

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posted 11 years ago

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Marla Barak Sanders wrote:Its a saaaad thing that has happened to this herb. The reason that I am interested is because I identified more than three nightshades growing in the backyard. Comparatively, these are much worse. Sorry for harping but lastly, what if it were legal and medically Rx'ed?

We will cross that bridge when we come to it.

I was in Seattle recently and a fella was telling me about something about marijuana for medicinal use and he said something like "I'm flabbergasted to discover how MANY people are sick!"

And then we can venture into discussions of people whose favorite recreational drug is something that is prescribed by their doctor.

Frankly, I like to think that seven years into the future, people will be able to come to the land and shed all their prescriptions.

I think the war on drugs is silly. And I think pot should be legal. At the same time, I am trying to accomplish something and all this pot stuff is just in my way.

A LOT of really excellent people will be not coming to the land because they enjoy a bit of pot once in a while at home. And that is not a fit here.

I think five years into the future, stuff/policies/rules at base camp will be looser than on TL. But my crystal ball is not clear on what. We'll see how it goes.

For now: no pot.

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

Mar Barak

Posts: 79

Location: NYC

posted 11 years ago

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"I'm flabbergasted to discover how MANY people are sick!"
Hahahaahaaaaaa!!!

We have an eversion to being 'well' whether it be natural or manmade. But I dont WANT to move to EU

If you want wealth, help others to grow wealthy.
Who said that?

John Wheeler

Posts: 41

Location: Slippery Rock, PA

posted 11 years ago

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I'm with you on this one, Paul. Heck, if it were me, I'd probably have a no smoking of any kind rule - marijuana, tobacco, sage, even hickory - unless everyone present agreed to it -- except when you're starting up your rocket mass heater, of course. And I do agree with the no illegal drugs policy, with the concern that in the future they may outlaw all medicinal herbs.

jdwheeler42
http://goingupslope.blogspot.com/

Chris Kott

pollinator

Posts: 3847

Location: Marmora, Ontario

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posted 11 years ago

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I definitely respect your decision, Paul, especially in light of the political considerations of your situation. I wish you were free to make decisions on this based purely on the merits of the plant as a whole. Especially considering the need for relatively safe painkillers in an increasingly larger aging population. And the fact that these kinds of plants, the opium poppy (papaver somniferum) as another example, produce useful quantities of nutritionally unique and important seed that have nothing to do with intoxication.

-CK

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein

Nick Kitchener

pollinator

Posts: 872

Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada

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posted 11 years ago

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What about pie?
I know of a few people who are addicted...

Chris Kott

pollinator

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Location: Marmora, Ontario

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posted 11 years ago

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This thread obviously has more to do with avoiding enabling addictive behaviour, and just as obviously with avoiding illegal activity. But what if someone wanted to come to your land and start, say, a biodynamic polyculture food forest with the express purpose, or crops of chief concern, being those fruit crops, including traditional grapes, to be used for the production of fruit wines, ciders, and (mostly so that bad ferments can be salvaged) either batch distilling or jack production (freezing and removing the ice until little to no ice forms). This assumes it is possible to get some sort of craft brewery/winery/distillery license or something, so it's all on the up-and-up. Or there's beer. You can make good beer out of a variety of things. Or mead. Mead is wonderful, and that likewise lets you make honeyjack.

In the food service industry, a phrase that bounces around a lot is, "Liquor is quicker." I think that is potentially true if you can convert high-quality Wheaton-scale produce that is so good it won't make it to the stores into a high-value-added product before it ever leaves BC, if it has to leave TL at all for processing, all of which would allow you a superior amount of quality control. I think this might be true of lots of fermented food products, and you could easily store fermented goods for market sale whenever/wherever convenient.

-CK

ronie dean

Posts: 631

Location: NW MO

posted 11 years ago

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paul wheaton wrote:I hope that those folks that are keen on pot find a community that is cool with that.

B) people that tried it at some point and now don't want any

For those that could possibly qualify for A, B or C, I would appreciate it if you say something here.

I tried it, I liked it. I don't see me ever using it again, unless it is legal for a certain disease that I might have in the future.

If you have it illegally at Paul's place, they could confiscate the property. Don't put Paul in that position.

I disagree with the guy that said that smokers should be able to smoke tobacco anywhere outside and the non-smoker can just get away somewhere else. That gives the smoker the right to drive off the non-smoker from a place, the smoker can claim all spots outdoors and the non-smoker can only move upwind if he don't like it. Tobacco smoke is bad for tomato plants and raspberries and I guess other plants too - it can cause mosaic virus to cause serious fruiting problems. Smokers can transmit the virus by smoking around the plants or by touching the plant.

If Paul allows alcohol , the users would have to give up the keys to vehicles or Paul could get a lawsuit for allowing you to drive after drinking...Again, don't put Paul in that position.

Sometimes the answer is not to cross an old bridge, nor to burn it, but to build a better bridge.

Chris Kott

pollinator

Posts: 3847

Location: Marmora, Ontario

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posted 11 years ago

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I think it would be helpful to encourage a healthy approach to the legal drugs you choose to allow.

I think that apart from rules governing movement between BC and TL, driving of any sort, drunk, stoned, buck naked and painted green, will be a non issue. Who will be driving where? Nobody's going to let anyone else get rowdy and hop on a trac hoe. I don't get that kind of vibe from any people who've expressed interest here.

Honestly. Paul is asking people to sign up for hard labor for education, fun, and the heck of it. From before the sun til the day is done, and Paul's feeding them. I don't think they're the kinds of people you need to worry about if they've passed the other requirements. The kind of trouble potheads and drunks get up to requires free time or specific kinds of non-quantifiable work in order to get that way in the first place. My feeling is that anyone not pulling their weight will be asked to move on.

-Ck

What's that smell? I think this tiny ad may have stepped in something.

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