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ISO microbiologist buddy for fermentation-based alt. toilet project

 
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Hello all, I'm sure the topic of bokashi-adjacent toilet systems has come up here, here's my addition to the bucket. I'm happy to define or elaborate on any jargon I'm using here (or just google it). This is a compilation of my notes and includes an ask for help at the end.

I've been working on a project incorporating some of the more obscure academic work on the topic, primarily from the world of ecosan and terra preta research, plus knowledge from KNF, bokashi, and permaculture wingnut youtube into a cheap, layperson-friendly system that can be used on a household basis in emergency and/or poverty scenarios. Or just for fun.

An ideal human waste sanitation system achieves these goals:
-odor removal
-sanitation through acidification, killing coliform, preventing water contamination
-soil production
-scalability
-quick processing time

My goals that surpass what I know to exist so far, in combination, are a human waste sanitation system with:
-100% cheap and widely available inputs and equipment
-simple instructions
-results that can be verified by sensory cues, rather than lab testing
-(preferably) a system not requiring urine separation, though it may be desirable for weight reasons

Existing Systems

The modern Terra Preta system ( https://www.tuhh.de/aww/en/research/terra-preta-sanitation ) requires 3 steps: Biochar production and addition to human waste, lactic acid fermentation (LAF), and vermicomposting.  Vermicomposting and biochar production are complicated and, based on my reading, unnecessary for odor removal and sanitation. Of course, the biochar and worm composting add to the soil-building process, but are far less accessible processes than LAF.

Bokashi is a fermentation-based composting system in which laboratory grown Effective Microorganisms (EM), a combination of specific LAB, yeasts, and other bacteria, are propagated on wheat bran, fed a little molasses, making bokashi bran. The bokashi bran is then layered with food waste, left in a closed bucket for a few weeks, during which time it acidifies to pH 3 or 4. This "pre-compost" is too acidic to be used directly as soil, and is buried in the dirt to mysteriously de-acidify.
As far as I can tell, it's an overengineered/proprietary version of preexisting east asian composting systems reminiscent of a nuka pot.
The advantage of Bokashi over aerobic and anaerobic composting is that it doesn't offgas, doesn't lose any nitrogen, doesn't require much space except the burial site, and doesn't require large inputs of "browns."

There's a proprietary bokashi/EM system for "pet waste" available ( https://store.bokashicycle.com/bpcfs )  that at least one person has documented using for some years for human waste sanitation/soil production ( https://tinyreddesk.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-toilet-report-and-bokashi-upgrade.html ) ( https://tinyreddesk.blogspot.com/2023/01/the-dtao-of-poop-update.html ). The system is similar to regular EM-Bokashi, except that it involves combining the bokashi flakes and molasses in a bucket half-full of water, dumping in accumulated "pet waste," and sealing it off. That is, instead of gradually layering food waste and bokashi bran.

This paper (https://www.tuhh.de/t3resources/aww/publikationen/pdf/TPS-IC/20_A_Yemaneh_et_al.pdf) concludes that a combination of LAB starter, and either 50% poop/50% kitchen waste, or 90% poop/10% molasses, will successfully ferment and achieve low enough pH to kill coliform.

These papers are also relevant. They successfully test a system mixing 50% poop with 50% "fermented rice flour," though the fermentation process isn't explained. They bring up that that starch-based (or at least cassava) substrate attracts heterofermentive LAB (which produce CO2, bad) rather than homofermentive LAB (don't produce CO2, just lactic acid, good).
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323404528_Locally_Produced_Lactic_Acid_Bacteria_for_Pathogen_Inactivation_and_Odor_Control_in_Fecal_Sludge
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324277850_Optimization_of_lactic_acid_fermentation_for_pathogen_inactivation_in_fecal_sludge

Anaerobic poop composting (in closed containers) produces methane which is sometimes intentionally done to capture methane for fuel.

The "classic" humanure system ( https://humanurehandbook.com/humanure_basics.html ) is widely used, and has a lot of problems:
-loss of significant of nutrients via offgassing, ie....
-greenhouse gas emissions
-requires lots of space and inputs
-year+ processing time


Alternative, cheap inputs

KNF-style lactic acid bacteria (LAB) preparations, and I believe Indigenous microorganism (IMO) preparations have been used successfully as a substitute for EM in bokashi-style composting. LAB and IMO are possible to prepare with cheap materials, excepting the milk the LAB preparation. This achieves the goal of cheap/available inputs. In KNF, LAB are cultivated by letting rice wash water sit out for a few days and go sour, then adding 1 part of this "serum" to 10 parts of milk, letting it separate, and extracting the liquid whey layer which is theoretically full of LAB.  

"People on the internet" bokashi composting using homegrown LAB: ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rvFLSLdWv0 )
( https://old.reddit.com/r/knf/comments/1ajabjf/bokashi_vs_imo3/ ), and I believe KNF IMO. I'm sure there is a ton of information in Korean on adjacent or older systems.

I've made what smells and appears to be a LAB preparation from an alternative medium described here (https://www.mdpi.com/2311-5637/9/3/216) made of water, and small amounts of soy flour and sweet potato. The sweet potato/soy broth separates and drops from pH 6 to pH of 4 in 24 hours, as opposed to milk which takes far longer. This ticks the box of "media cheaper than milk." Though whey is plentiful in some agricultural areas, it isn't everywhere.

WTF am I doing

Pooping in a bucket, in various creative ways mixing existing, non-academic systems with my (limited) understanding of the academic research. Testing the impact of filtered vs tap water (chloramine) on starters, attempting to deactivate the chloramine. Testing different media for LAB cultivation.

As you can see, there are people using EM-bokashi to process human waste, there are people using homemade LAB to replace EM in the bokashi system, but no one is cultivating LAB for bokashi for processing human waste. Or, they are, but exclusively in the academic/international development world, and have not disseminated accessible information on the process.

While all of the above sounds great in academic papers, I couldn't rightly write up a pamphlet or give a workshop on the topic without proven, repeatable results in a non-lab setting. Despite all the promising research, I have not yet achieved fully acceptable results. But, I've only started doing trials recently after a few years of research. I may try to do some "testing" at a yearly hippie fest in these parts, I'm sure they'll be amenable and I have an "in" with the poop crew.

Why I need a trained microbiologist friend who's willing to help with this, hopefully living in Portland, Oregon (a guy can dream):


-I have random questions about the process come up, it'd be great to have someone to PM about it. I've taken nursing microbiology, but am often at a loss regarding baseline information
-Help decoding academic research
-While i'm intentionally doing this in a non-laboratory setting, I still need laboratory testing and verification of results to see if everything is going well, namely to correlate visual/smell cues to microbial changes. Would be great to have guidance on how/where to get testing done, or even better, someone with lab access...

Hope this all made sense, thanks for reading! Please tag or send over people you think would be interested and helpful.

miscellany:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328227531_Application_of_lactic_acid_derived_from_food_waste_on_pathogen_inactivation_in_fecal_sludge_A_review_on_the_alternative_use_of_food_waste
 
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Would you be combining the microbes and poop daily (pooping in a bokashi bucket) or would it be a batch setuped that is combined weekly/monthly/etc.

Could this be applied to a regular flush tiolet or would it be limited to a "dry-humanure" tiolet?
 
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Anton Reuven wrote:.....
-While i'm intentionally doing this in a non-laboratory setting, I still need laboratory testing and verification of results to see if everything is going well, namely to correlate visual/smell cues to microbial changes. Would be great to have guidance on how/where to get testing done, or even better, someone with lab access...



For this part of the analysis, I would investigate using one of many services that are popping up as start-ups after the huge amount of investment globally in genome sequencing.  In particular, you should be able to find services, possibly even in the PNW, that will accept 'stool' samples directly.  The service then would extract all of the DNA from all of the  microbes in the sample and obtain sequence information from one specific gene that already has a robust record for serving as a species 'fingerprint'.  The sequence pool obtained then is compared to sequences in public databases (this you could do yourself or with said buddy, but worth checking the cost to have the service do it) and this comparison generally is sufficient to reveal not only the main microbial species in your brew, but also the ratio in the population of any given species to the others.  So I suspect cost will be a factor, but I put this forward because cost is changing rapidly in this field and mostly downward.

One service that probably would do what you are after:  

https://www.cd-genomics.com/microbial-identification-1.html?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAuNGuBhAkEiwAGId4ailOLYZJC3egGDLr-7tdCcuLV69CEJ2TP9Sv_jtB3XQpmBo0EQ7v9hoCu3EQAvD_BwE

https://www.cd-genomics.com/pdf/main/sample-submission-guidelines.pdf

[Usual disclaimer that I have no financial interest nor collaboration with the noted company.]

In the second link, please scroll down to the page "Suggestions of Sampling" which would be relevant to your proposal.

If motivated to do so, you may wish to consider making this endeavor into a graduate school project through Oregon Health Sciences University or OSU (for the latter, an off-campus project).  With the right advisor, you could test this in a laboratory setting as well as testing your own home samples and potentially get all of the analysis paid for as a part of your training/studies--not to mention the typical free tuition for such graduate programs.  Good luck!
 
Anton Reuven
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-thank you Timothy!

-S bengi: Most of the existing research so far has been batch-style, however this is inconvenient for a small household so ideally it will work both ways. The person who's been using a pet waste bokashi system and documenting it for years seems to fill up a bucket gradually then seal it up, with successful results.
I don't think this will work with a flush toilet.

-John: thank you so much for the idea of genome sequencing, it hadnt occured to me for some reason! As far as doing this through OSU, I don't have even an undergrad degree, so I was hoping to find someone with a degree to lend an air of legitimacy in order to be able to work through either a university or get an earthquake preparedness grant, or something like that. Are you connected with OSU at all or were just suggesting it because its close by?
 
John Weiland
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Anton Reuven wrote:    .....-John: thank you so much for the idea of genome sequencing, it hadnt occured to me for some reason! As far as doing this through OSU, I don't have even an undergrad degree, so I was hoping to find someone with a degree to lend an air of legitimacy in order to be able to work through either a university or get an earthquake preparedness grant, or something like that. Are you connected with OSU at all or were just suggesting it because its close by?



Just thinking OSU might have some Microbiology/Environmental Studies programs that would be suitable and allow off-campus research..... [and it's an Alma Mater! ]  It's always possible that you might cross paths with someone who is interested in the project who is planning to pursue graduate work there or an undergraduate looking at Portland State, Lewis and Clark, Reed College, etc.  More and more these days undergraduate institutions want their science undergraduates to have research projects on their resumes even before heading off to do graduate work.  The point being that there may be a way to get that legitimacy you are seeking and get a lot of analysis paid for and/or performed under professional guidance.  It seems like a tenable project and said guidance could help pare down the experimental variables to the most relevant for the study.  Good luck!..
 
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Vermicomposting tiolets is actually a type of fermentation-based alt tiolet. the worms actually eat the microbes and not the "compost" material. It's just that they help speed up the process. And they can be used with a regular-flush tiolet https://www.permaculturinginportugal.net/composting-flush-toilet/.

Designing a fermentation based alt tiolet system that gets daily "deposits" that has minimal off-gassing of sulfur and nitrogen componds sounds challenging. have you tried a daily deposit system that doesn't have a odor? What was the ratio of starting innoculant to daily deposit? Did you deposit 1kg of poop daily and followed with adding 2kg of innoculant right after? Or did you do 1kg of poop followed by 1kg of innoculant+1kg of substrate/sawdust/etc?  Do you exclude all urine from the system or just some?

I love the idea of just adding some milk-kefir/yougurt/water-kefir starter and some burried cornmeal/wheat-flour starter to a poop bucket and it just go? How about some oyster mushroom?  
 
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I wanted to ask what is your progress.

I have been also looking for an alternative toilet system that doesn't rely on so many browns or purchased inputs. With all that has been learned about EM, I am thinking surely someone has figured this out by now.

There sure be a way to do this without bran, molasses, milk, sawdust, etc.

EM is just lactobacillus, yeast, and purple non-sulfur bacteria.

Homemade recipes are a mixture of kombucha (lab and yeast) and earthworm castings (PNSB), if I am not mistaken.

My problem with this recipe is that kombucha requires added sugar. Sugar doesnt grow here. For me, that makes it unsustainable. I am okay with making Kombucha for comsumption (I make water kefir now), but if anything ever happened to the supply chain, I dont want my sanitation system relying on something that I can no longer buy. (I have the same issues with bran, sawdust, milk, etc)

LAB is everywhere, is it not? If its on rice, then why not other grasses? I have been wondering if grass could be fermented to make LAB for a sanitation system.

Yeast is everywhere. If sourdough starter can be made without added sugar, surely there are more sustainable alternatives to making EM than a system that relies on cane sugar, which isn't grown locally.

So, I don't have a solution, but I am very hopeful that we can find one soon.

I think we will need it. And if we don't come up with something, people will be forced to return to outhouses. Hurricane Helene taught us that. Overnight people went from flushing toilets to digging holes outside.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not opposed to digging a hole. I just think we can do better than the old fashioned outhouse. Maybe something closer to Terra Preta.

I just can't wrap my head around it, but I know this is important. So I hope we can figure this out.



 
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