Electrical panel upgrade AND solar, do together?

We need to upgrade our electric panel from a 100amp, 80's one to a 200 new one. Not dire, but it needs to happen. I have been thinking about solar and was leaning towards waiting another couple of years since the roof is old enough that it'll probably be best to just put in a metal one under the solar.

I am now thinking its best not to wait too long. If we go ahead with the solar, should I wait on the panel and just have it all done together? I just don't want to have to have anything done twice.

Also would welcome any recommendations for solar installers in southern Ontario. ( between London and Hamilton)

It would be your best interest to upgrade your main panel at the same time. You'll save more by not having to pay 2x for a company to come out. I'm unfamiliar with Canada, but here in the States we receive a 30% tax credit for renewable energy additions. That 30% would include the panel upgrade since its a requirement for the solar.

I think the issue should not be a new panel, or adding solar, I think what the issue should be is HOW solar would be added to the panel?  Is this going to be an either or situation, or emergency backup, or supplementing the grid with your own power?  

The one constant that you MUST always observe is the solar and grid power can NEVER be allowed to mix.  Under so circumstances should solar power and grid power be mixed on the same wires.  That means solar powered circuits are kept totally separate from the grid circuits, with either different wiring paths, or with a either/or transfer switch.  This is to protect the electronics of the system and more importantly protects electrical linemen working on the outside powerlines.

One way you could do is is to install a split-phase electrical panel with L1 and L2 terminals, and only wire L1 to the grid and L2 only to solar.  That means some outlets in the house would only be powered by the grid, and others only by solar.

If you want split-phase 120/240V AC, then you have to use a transfer switch to separate the grid from 240V solar AC.

At my own cabin, I have solar-only split-phase 120/240V AC which powers my well-pump.  I use Schneider's split-phase 6848 inverter that makes both 120V and 240V AC.  I do have generator backup, but the generator power is routed through the inverter, which acts as the transfer switch.

A third option would be a completely separate electrical panel.  One panel for the grid, and a second for the solar.  Each would power a separate set of outlets so the two electrical waveforms never meet.

I tend to agree with Michael on this.

As I remember from the salesperson who was trying to sell us solar panels about a year ago, our main breaker panel was fine, but we needed to have an adjacent panel set up for solar input.  The gist of this panel was that it helped control input from the panels separately from input from normal power.

Now I don’t understand the full context and perhaps Michael can explain this better, but where I live, we can trade extra solar power back to the power company to offset power purchased during night, etc.  I assume that this means power is running away from the house, but I am certainly open to correction.

But back to your specific issue, you might find that you don’t necessarily have to upgrade your panel.  That said, if it is your plan to upgrade your panel in the near future anyway, why not do it right now and avoid paying for all of the solar installation twice.

Eric

Dian Green wrote:We need to upgrade our electric panel from a 100amp, 80's one to a 200 new one. Not dire, but it needs to happen. I have been thinking about solar and was leaning towards waiting another couple of years since the roof is old enough that it'll probably be best to just put in a metal one under the solar.

I am now thinking its best not to wait too long. If we go ahead with the solar, should I wait on the panel and just have it all done together? I just don't want to have to have anything done twice.

Also would welcome any recommendations for solar installers in southern Ontario. ( between London and Hamilton)

HI Dian,
as an installer in Ontario though not your area I would say it depends on your goals. If you want to just hook in a net metered system to the grid with no battery backup then do your panel upgrade now, solar later. If you want to back up certain loads in the home then it gets more fun. Then you have to ask why am I upgrading to the 200 amp service? Chances are good you could run the vast majority of your home off of solar and use a small grid input to keep the batteries charged up during off times. If you are planning on going heat pumps and electric car charging then probably the upgrade to 200 amps makes sense. These are the kinds of details that are unique to your situation and I try to capture during a site assessment. I don't travel as far as you though. I find ontario solar installers often fall down when you ask for anything complex or personalized.  
Hope this helps a bit. feel free to write me a note ill gladly chat it up with you a bit.
Cheers,  David

Thanks David, I have sent you a moosage!

Eric Hanson wrote:
Now I don’t understand the full context and perhaps Michael can explain this better, but where I live, we can trade extra solar power back to the power company to offset power purchased during night, etc.  I assume that this means power is running away from the house, but I am certainly open to correction.

Eric

Eric, you have what is known as grid-tie solar.  With a grid-tie, you don't directly utilize the power your solar panels make.  All your power gets directed to your power company.  Contracts vary from location to location, but basically, every watt you make is bought by the power company, and every watt you consume is bought from the power company.  I have however an off-grid system.  That means every watt I make belongs to me.  But, I don't have the extra power to run big-ticket items like my well-pump in the middle of the night.  But, my batteries are just fine for watching TV, and making microwave popcorn at night.

The typical contracts you might see today is that every kWh of power you make is bought by the power company at maybe 5 cents/kWh, while every watt you consume is bought at maybe 10 cents/kWh.  So, depending on what you make, vs what you consume, you either might get a credit on your bill, or a reduction, depending on what you made and consumed.

All grid-tie inverters that feed your solar power into the grid have an automatic shutoff if there happens to be a power outage.  That is to protect the electrical linemen out fixing the power outage.  It prevents you from energizing a powerline that the workers think are cold.

The newest type of grid-tie is the so-called hybrid system, that normally feeds the grid, but has a battery backup.  So, if the grid goes down, your hybrid inverter does not shut down, but re-directs power from the batteries into your home.  If set up properly though, it can not send power outside your home to the grid.