Cy Cobb

Thom Bri wrote: Well, last year I had weevils all over the house for months. Thankfully, my wife never associated the little black bugs with my corn!
This is the first year I have actively tried to get weevils to proliferate. Could be I am just selecting for tougher weevils!

I have often wondered about the people who hang their corn by the husks indoors as decor or in braided ropes to wring off kernels as needed.  I like the idea of that, but in my limited experience, weevils prefer being in corn still attached to the cob over shelled corn.  I think the cob holds onto moisture, and gives them places to hide/burrow into.  I'd love to hang my corn in the house, but for fear of weevils getting into my other foods, I have not.  

I agree with Christopher Weeks in that I'd try it just out of curiosity.  I know there have been a few posts on here about dehybridizing a given strain of hybrid produce, and most have eventual success in getting "close enough."  In your case, yes it is possible, and I would encourage you to save the seeds and replant them without outcrossing first to see what you get.  If you're only allowing Blue Prince to pollinate Blue Prince, you've at least confined the genetics to what is already there.  Not knowing the background of Blue Prince, it could be either a multi-cross terminal hybrid in which this is the peak outcome of the fruit...or it could breed true and the F1 designation could be a clever ploy to keep people from saving "Heirloom" seed, so they make more seed sales.

Given your space constraints (which I have to deal with as well), I would suggest thinking of this as a project that will span several years.  Grow the 3-4 plants you normally do, save those seeds, they see what they grow the following year.  If the fruit look wildly different in size, shape, color, interior flesh quality, you can then be sure they were in fact hybrids.  If they produce true to type, then you'll no longer have to buy seed.  Either way, they should still be of good eating quality.

2 years ago I did a sort of mini hugel with potatoes & carrots.  They all did well enough, but that was about the only way I could get some loose soil for root crops to actually grow in the hard soil I had at the time.  The downside, is with so much woodchips, bark chips, & old straw mixed in, it was a haven for insects like pill bugs, centipedes, crickets, etc. I ended up losing a third of my potatoes & all of my carrots to bug damage where they were eaten underground, then rotted as I cured them.  Not sure if this helps or not, but I always have to try something myself to see how my gardening style, pests, & rain patterns affect things in my area.  In this case, the plants were healthy above ground, but I had no idea they looked like Swiss cheese below ground.  Give it a try, you won't know for sure until you do.  Unless you are growing long radishes, they mature very quickly, and stay fairly shallow, so you should be ok there.  Beets go a bit deeper, but might still work fine if picked young.  I bet it can be done, Good luck!

Glad to hear your experiment is moving along nicely.  I have entirely different seed that I'm growing next year, so I won't need to dip into these seeds in the spring.  That said, I can continue to monitor mine along the same timeline as you for comparison.  This batch is comprised of all dent varieties, so we'll see how different types are affected over time.

Update to my version of Thom Bri's weevil experiment:

As I shelled my entire season's worth of mixed dent corn in my garage, all less than perfect kernels were thrown into an open topped cardboard box.  This included all stained, dirty, moldy, bug damaged kernels or any that looked less than perfect, as well as a handful of good kernels that fell on the floor as I shelled.  Overall, it contained an estimated 3 gallons by volume.

After a few months, I decided that instead of throwing away the whole box, I'd sort through it to select out all of the good plantable kernels that survived the weevils up to that point.  I did find a few weevils in the bottom of that box, but felt that enough time had gone by that any eggs that were there would've hatched by then.

I sorted through the box kernel by kernel, inspecting for weevil holes, or any other real damage that would prevent the seed from growing.  All told, I ended up with about a half gallon volume of good plantable seed from that entire box.  I'm storing this seed in clear glass jars in my unheated garage so I can glance at it every time I walk by, looking for signs of weevils.  So far, it's been about a month of cold temps with no new hatches.  I don't expect new hatches until spring, but as the summertime temps rise, we'll see if they do hatch anymore after seasonal dormancy.

This may not be entirely scientific, but I think it's a practical test for myself and my purposes for the time being.  If I do this same process of hand grading seed, allowing the hatch, grading what's left, then monitor what's left, I'm sure to learn something along the way.  Even if this study doesn't result in developing a weevil resistant line of field corn many years from now, it's still a worthwhile experiment to pass the time and work toward corn that survived exposure to mold, weevils, frass, smut, lodging, weather, etc. with no fertilizers or chemicals.

On one hand, this goes against the idea of using perfect seed ala "best of the best" genetics.
On the other hand, it embraces the idea of exposing these same "best of the best" plant genetics (same OP gene pool) to stressors on the individual seeds that they have to survive in order to grow the next generation.

I look forward to hearing the results of Thom Bri's parallel experiment mentioned earlier in the thread.  In the end, whatever is left in the jars will contribute to my continued diverse planting seed.  

I'm open to hearing other thoughts, theories, experiments, or questions on this subject if you have them.  

I don't generally have much free time, and if I do, it's usually short periods here and there.  So, projects that would take a couple hours end up taking me much longer to do.  I get them done, but it has definitely made me better at time management by necessity.  It involves planning things out, keeping running lists of projects, breaking them down into segments, things like that.  So, to actually answer the question, my hobby would basically be an extension of pre-season planning combined with the small busy work things that satisfy creative needs while recycling.

-Make seedling ID stakes for seedling flats.  
These can be made from many things, but I save the larger white plastic yogurt containers for this.  Just cut them into strips vertically, and write on them with a Sharpie marker.

-Make seedling pots.  I make mine from the taller aluminum energy drink cans.  Poke about 5 drain holes around the bottom, cut the top off smoothly with scissors.

-Make a seed starting rack.  I've seen ones made from wire racks and grow lights and a fan.  The seedlings were very healthy and strong.  

-Make garden ID stakes from wine corks and bamboo skewers.  This one is on my list to try since I already have the materials on hand.  I'll be painting the corks, then write the plant name in marker or paint on it.  I don't always mark my plants since I haven't ever had a problem remembering, but I'm growing lots of hot peppers next year & want to know what's what.

-Make trellises for pole beans.
I have some tree branches, and am planning on making some rustic looking trellises to grow pole beans on.

-Plan & replan the garden many times up until the day the last plants are in the ground.

-Reorganize your seed collection.

-Scrounge some reclaimed lumber to make raised bed frames or obelisk trellises.

I like to build from things normally thrown away, so reclaimed/recycled things are my material of choice...even though there's admittedly more work involved.

I do enjoy spending the winter months planning as detailed as I can for different garden plots.  I use graph paper to get a pretty solid plan, but I've learned that it can be only a "Projected" plan at best. I say that because as I plan my garden, my first priority is to use old seeds first.  If I direct sow, some don't germinate, leaving "holes" in the rows or if an entire lot fails to germinate, I'm now delayed 2 weeks & need to replant with something else, weather permitting. Sometimes, I miss my earliest/best planting window & then get a month of rain, setting me back to less than ideal timelines.  

For the seeds I start indoors, I have to overplant some if using old or suspect seed. A lot has to go right to get quality transplants come planting time. That said, you can now see what seedlings are doing well, then figure out where you'll plant them, and determine if you have enough to give away to friends or relatives.

The only beans I have plenty of at this time are Tenderette & Slenderette.  Both are thinner French filet-type green snap bush beans with white seeds that mature to about Navy/Great Northern Bean size.  If you want some, feel free to PM me.  Otherwise, we can try again after I attempt to grow out many more varieties next year....so long as the critters leave them alone, lol.

A little update to this topic for anyone interested in long/girthy corn:  

I found a source of "Wade's Giant" Flint Indian Corn through Baker Creek seeds that come 75 seeds to a pack, and they're still in stock.

I have some plans for a few projects that this seed can contribute to, but if anyone is looking to add some larger genetics to their own mixes, here's one avenue.  

Giant

For the weevil experienced seed savers on here:  Once you shell your dry corn from the cob, with no visible weevils amongst the kernels, and old cobs disposed of so as not to harbor weevils nearby, how long should you wait before you deem your highest quality future seed "weevil egg free"?

In my case, I've hand shelled my corn, removed any suspect, gnawed on, molded, or dirty kernels, and am keeping the best seed for future breeding projects.  I intend to keep it in the freezer for long-term storage & know that that's one way to kill weevil eggs, but I was just curious if there was a rule of thumb while it's drying down, like if no weevils are present after a month or room temp open air storage, then there are no eggs in/on the kernels?

Also, to those that freeze their corn for long term storage, do you put it through a dehydrator to remove moisture, or is ambient temp & air exposure for a month sufficient to maintain seed viability? I've heard that over drying can reduce viability (maybe due to heating element/light?), and under drying can burst the kernel due to the internal moisture expanding.  Some accounts have even sweet corn seed keeping viability for 10 years if kept in the freezer.

To anyone who has kept dent/flint/flour corn in a jar, how long do they stay viable for if kept out of the light at 60-70 degrees?