Taylan Morcol

Hey Folks,

OP here. I just wanted to write with an update. After much searching, I landed in the internship program at Lost Valley Educational Center in Oregon. In exchange for 20 hrs/week of land and garden work, I get food and a private room in a dorm. I found the program through WWOOF USA. It checks off a lot of the boxes that I had listed as criteria in my original message. Here's a link to the program: https://www.lostvalley.org/internship-opportunity

I'm less than a month in. Perhaps further down the line, I'll post another follow-up message with reflections from my time here.

Taylan

Thanks Jeff. Good to know that there are boots in their 30s and 40s.

I was actually thinking about doing the SEPPer program the way you described. And if WL seemed like a good fit, I was even thinking I could rent a plot at Ant Village for a year, do the remote work on the side, and do some days or half days in the boots program to learn the skills. As my skills develop, then build a shelter/etc on the plot. Have other people done something like this?

Thanks Anne. I've been meaning to check out the WWOOFer websites, just haven't gotten around to it yet. It seems like there's so many options out there, and since I'm open to a wide geographic area, I often feel overwhelmed by all the options.

The thing that stuck out to me the most in the post that you linked was the thing about most communities failing, and the ones that succeed don't compromise too much.

I also came across this guide: https://permacultureapprentice.com/permaculture-community/
I like how it gives lots of guidelines and resources for locating areas with good community.

Thanks for the detailed, line-by-line response Paul. So it basically sounds like whenever someone requests a date, as long as there's a spot, they get it. And responding within 24 hours really only matters if a new date fills up quickly. Is that correct?

paul wheaton wrote:Magdalene made a suggestion that I think is a good idea ...

Instead of emailing the waiting list and saying "who can be here in three weeks?" - to instead email them with the next four or five arrival dates and see who wants to sign up for which dates.

This new system seems like it has a big advantage in terms of planning (both for WL and for the prospective boots). And it also brings up some questions for me about the mechanics of this new waitlist system.

What if someone is not ready to sign up for one of the dates yet, but say in a few weeks or so, they know which dates they want?

Like let's say that on January 20, I notify WL that I want to start on March 13 (i.e. I give almost 2 months notice). Then let's say the March 13 start date is already full, but that my rank on the waitlist is higher than some of those people already signed up for March 13? Would I still be able to start on March 13 (and in doing so, bump a person off the list for March 13)?

Now let's say that on January 20, I instead notify WL that I want to start on January 23 (i.e. I give 3 days notice). As before, Jan 23 is full, but my waitlist rank (based on when I joined) is higher than at least some of the people signed up for January 23. Do I get to come on January 23?

So, does ones waitlist rank still mean anything? And if so, what does it mean?

And how soon would one need to respond in order to be considered for a specific date?

And what if one signs up for a date and then changes their mind? Same penalties as before (i.e., drop to bottom of waitlist or removed from waitlist altogether)? And would the penalty depend on the amount of notice one gives (i.e. any difference between changing mind two months before start date vs. changing mind three days before start date)?

And what about the person who responds with a specific start date? At what point are they "guaranteed" that date? In other words, at what point is a particular date "closed" to new people, even if those new people have a higher wailist rank than some of the people already signed up for that date? In other words, what is the cutoff date (if any) for signing up for a particular date?

Reading back through my post, I think I'm just asking in a few different ways about how the new system affects things like response cutoff times, penalties for changing ones mind, and waitlist rank. I realize that much of this would only really matter if the demand exceeds the number of available slots.

Anyway, thanks for reading :-)

Howdy Permies,

I'm looking for a community where I can immerse myself in permaculture training for a while. It seems like there are so many options out there, and I'm hoping that by writing more about what I'm looking for, my fellow permies can offer me recommendations, point me in a direction, or give me things to consider.

Ever since I started looking into permaculture a few years ago, I've been so excited to explore it. At the time, I was fully immersed in grad school and just doing a little bit with permaculture on the side. Now that I'm done with school, I'm ready to take the deep dive into permaculture! What I'm envisioning is a large, well-established, healthy community where I can learn permaculture by doing. I'm ready to devote months to years to this. I've accumulated tidbits of permaculture-related experiences and skills over the years, such as gardening, farming, trail work, greenhouse, earth building, and botany. Now I'm looking for something more substantial.

My ideal is that the time commitment be part-time to start, giving me enough time left over for remote income generation; so an internet connection would be good. I'm also yearning to live in a community with well-established, consistent, healthy rhythms of life. After the isolation and inconsistency of my grad school lifestyle, I want to be shaped by community into a stronger, happier, healthier person. I've also moved around quite a bit in my life, which has made it difficult to maintain relationships, especially romantic. I'm a 36 y/o single man and yearning for a long-term relationship. Reading through the singles forum, it seems like doing a permaculture training could also be a great way to meet women who are looking for the same thing.

So to summarize, my goals are:
(1) Learn permaculture (primarily for lifestyle and sustenance rather than as a career)
(2) Live in and be shaped by consistent rhythms of a well-established, healthy community (not looking for newly forming communities at this point in my life)
(3) Meet people (maybe even future partner/wife) and make friends

Places that have been on my radar include Hawai'i, western USA and Canada, Mexico, Costa Rica, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Australia, and New Zealand. I generally love warm weather, and my ideal climates are Mediterranean or tropical. That said, I'm open to other places as well if they're a good fit.

I feel a bit overwhelmed with all the options I've found out there, including WWOOF, ecovillages, intentional communities, PDC courses, etc., especially since my geographic scope is so big. A lot to sort through! That's why I'm asking for recommendations from you all

Actually, what got me excited and inspired to write this post in the first place was finding out about the Wheaton Labs bootcamp just yesterday! Here are some things that excite me about it and also some things that seem less than ideal. I'm sharing these to give a better idea of what I'm looking for.


What excites me about Wheaton Labs bootcamp program:
-Flexibility in duration of training
-Opportunities to meet other permies
-Consistent daily and weekly schedule
-No drugs or tobacco, and heavy alcohol use discouraged (works well with my lifestyle)
-Low monetary cost...$100 (and that's it for the entire program?)
-The community seems to be seeking and encouraging people to stay there long term (even for life)
-Opportunities to work towards PDC and lifetime of rent on the property
-Close to Missoula (potential opportunities for income generation at university)
-It's a lab! Spirit of learning and experimentation, which I love!
-People seem happy there
-Nearby hot springs!

Things that seem less than ideal for me about the bootcamp:
-40 hr/wk time commitment, leaving less time for outside income generation (but the fact that the program is essentially free could offset this for me...)
-Location: colder than my ideal, far from ocean
-Still seems like a fairly new community with mostly young people (is there a place for elders in the community?)


So anyways, thanks for reading all the way through this. I'm grateful for advice, recommendations, questions, and any other feedback that the community has to offer. Happy Old Year greetings to everyone!

Taylan

Thanks all. I can definitely pull the mulch away a bit more from the trunk. What's the disadvantage to having a thick layer of mulch?

About the samaras, another plot twist this morning. On a sister tree (same age/species, a few yards away) I saw a squirrel picking off the samaras one by one, taking a nibble, and then dropping the rest to the ground. When I checked under the tree in the picture, sure enough most samaras had the seed part eaten out. So I'm putting my money on the squirrel hypothesis! It does seem that the timing just happened to line up.

Hi Permies,

I've been following this forum for a little while, and now this is my first post!

Yesterday I decided to mulch a young red maple. Before mulching, it was pretty much bare soil. I first laid down a layer of twigs a few inches deep. Then I put down a thick layer of fresh (same day) grass clippings that were already pretty warm. I worked the clippings into the spaces in between the twigs.

This morning I noticed that the tree had dropped most of its samaras. By the evening, it had dropped almost all of them. It seems like this sudden drop is related to the mulching somehow. I'm wondering if maybe the heat in the root zone from the grass clippings is making the tree think that the season is further along than it actually is.

Another theory I have is that maybe pesticides in the grass clippings stressed the tree out. The clippings are kindly donated from the property next door, and I don't know how they treat their lawns, if they use pesticide or not. This seems less likely given how quickly the samara drop happened and the fact that we haven't had rain in a few days (to wash any pesticides from the clippings into the soil).

Any thoughts on what's going on?

At any rate, I'm wondering if I need to be concerned, if I need to remove the mulch to prevent any more damage to the tree. From what I understand, red maples are pretty resilient but I still don't want to kill it!

Here's a picture from today (attached).

Thanks everyone!
Taylan