Nerdmom Hatfield

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since Mar 24, 2011
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Recent posts by Nerdmom Hatfield

I have another question about this output/input issue.  With most foods we are eating a very specific portion of the plant, and although the plant utilizes nutrients to produce the entire plant, if we put most of the plant back into the ground in the form of mulch or compost on top of nutrients produced on-site like humanure, animal manure, straw, AND the energy produced by the sun, rain would that not balance out?  I'm thinking of a situation in the forest in which the plants and animals live in tandem with each eating taking and giving in equal measure energy.  Perhaps a truly sustainable farm would have a composting toilet to take advantage of the resources of others?  I remember reading in ancient Japan there were composting toilets for the commons, and if I'm not mistaken humanure is still utilized in China.
The concern for me always comes down to cost.  If you are spending money on inputs that takes a percentage out of your bottom line.  Most farmers don't want to completely take that out of worker's salary, and cannot offset to customers as they would have a hard time competing.  I know a lot of farmers have improved profits through direct sale, or at least gotten out of the red that way.
There was a radio broadcast today sponsored by Harvest Public Media about local food and how to build a broader consumer base of local food. It was disappointing because I didn't think the guests wanted to acknowledge that cost is a primary issue for buying local foods.    That is to say that if I have a $1.00 to spend on salad, I can't spend $3.00 no matter the quality. 
It got to me to thinking of this input/output issue, and how permaculture can help local growers compete with larger ag on cost.   If it's possible for a farm to  maintain good soil and fertility with little to no external inputs, could that help avoid the higher cost of smaller production?
14 years ago
Ok, so I have a question.  Why do we need to worry so much about weed seeds getting into the garden beds?  I ask because when I dig a garden bed, I cut up the sod in squares, set it to the side, take my garden fork and loosen the lower soil, shovel that up and put it aside.  Then, I take the sod and layer it, grass side down,  and top with the lower soil.  Usually I will put an amendment in afterward, double digging.  After that I never dig again, as I am a "No Tiller".  I don't have any unusual problems with weeds and since I have been doing this, the growth in my garden either meets or exceeds expectations. 
Is this kind of method not possible in a medium or large scale farm?  I also mow my lawn every couple of weeks and lay the fresh grass in my beds as mulch.  Haven't seemed to have any problems with nitrogen immobilization and my lawn has a ton of clover growing in it.  I admit, I haven't done any soil testing, so I bet I have lots of nitrogen in my soil already. 
Even though Helen's methods are effective, all I could think when she was talking about tilling her soil  was all the worms that were getting cut up, all the little insects in the ground being turned out to the birds, and all the bio-organisms that dried out while she was drying out that bed.  I mean, we need people willing to experiment for sure, but do we really need to go to these extremes to get rid of weed seeds?  A weed, conveniently planted can be turned into some excellent mulch if you are handy.
14 years ago
ANother thing occurred to me at my 3:00 am hour of insomnia that I see a lot in environmentalists going about this the wrong way.  Many times their focus is to get us to get our governments to organize and enact change.  The problem being that our governments, unless you're in the "right" part of the country, New York, California, Oregon, or (a surprise to me!) Montana aren't moving fast enough.  I see a lot of individual effort in Kansas City, but our city council tried to outlaw front lawn vegetable gardens.  As if!   Most governments are either ignorant of permaculture, or they move too slowly to make appreciable change.  Corporations on the other hand have the ability to move quickly and concisely, if they see a dollar soon enough at the end of their action.  I'm sorry, from reading the permie forums, I don't see a lot of money happening right away.  And not that making money at this isn't a fine goal, but there's a certain point of expansion in which your business stops being profitable for everyone, including the planet, and starts being a hinderance to everyone except you.  So, I think, hoping to enlist some corporate god to spread this is catching a tiger by the tail.

The thing I like about homesteading and permaculture in general is the "rugged individualism" aspect of the whole thing.  If I want something, I can set myself up to make it on my own, without having to rely on some else's work to get it.  I also live in fear of when governments finally do get it together, and come up with some "one fits all plan" to try and help solve problems like climate change, colony collapse disorder, or complications stemming from GM crops.  Generally those kinds of plans don't have the subtlety necessary to actually fix issues and a whole new slew of problems arise.

So, my point is that we need to be encouraging people to take ownership of the problem themselves.  I have a neighbor, who is constantly trying to mow my lawn, he's even scalped parts of it a couple of time in the spirit of "being helpful".  He is actually the landlord of the property next door to mine, so he's not around to see me in the yard everyday, knocking out spent dandelion stems, picking the mullein and wildflowers, collecting seed, and gingerly mowing around patches of clover.  He doesn't see me going next door to mow the neighbor's lawn for their mulch.  Point being, he is so used to what I call "sidewalk" lawns that it didn't occur to him that I have a purpose.  I mean, he's a gardener and he took out some potato plants that I had.  But because we as a society turn staying in between the lines into a fine art,  he just chugs along in that line, not thinking that he has options.
In fact, most people don't realize they have options.  That they don't have to live in HOA communities, or if they do, then they can form successful arguments against bans on dandelions, clover, wild violets, creeping charlie, mock strawberries. Or even growing corn in your front yard. I read somewhere that a person didn't need their neighbors seeing them flinging dandelion seed around, so they only did it in their back yard.  Why shouldn't they see you?  Dandelions are delicious, pretty, useful plants.  Also, dandelions only grow in my front yard, so that's where they will stay feeding bees, butterflies, the ground and my family.
We have to appeal directly to people's needs in order for them to get on board.  Talk about their dinner plates, talk about their water bills, talk about their electric bills, talk about their gas tanks, talk about the medication they take and the health care they get, about the clothes they wear, talk about how burning through natural resources is the real threat to their children's future, not some political plan cooked up by the jokers in the capital.  All of these things are directly impacted by how we live on the planet.  Then, give them a tomato plant, a couple of onion starts, and a cilantro plant in a self-watering pot, and tell to make salsa. 
We need to stop waiting for some shining politician on his white horse to come down and save them.  WE are the white knights that need to be doing the saving, and then teaching our neighbors to save others.  If things don't work out, it's nobody's fault but our own.
14 years ago
Hitting on that "first responder mode" you are in can actually be helpful in times like these.  Namely, all these floods hitting the midwest and drowning out crops.  I went to the grocery store, and organic watermelon,  was $7.94 a pound!!  We have notices in our grocery stores all the time about failed crop this, failed crop that.  Things are getting to be so bad that now the average consumer is having conversations that heretofore only farmers had.  I can't tell you how many friends on Facebook, that live in the city mind you, are debating drought and flood conditions every other day.  
I hate to say it, but it's easiest to convince people in times of desperation.  I think permies need to seize this opportunity to show people how to withstand extreme weather conditions, high food costs, and job loss.  I am building up testimonials to share with anyone and everyone who wants to know about the permaculture lifestyle.  
One story I've been telling lately is how the heat wave pretty much knocked out my traditional salad greens, spinach and lettuce.  But, since I also planted amaranth, chard, calendula, favas,  not to mention a wide variety of herbs, I continue to eat salad every day for the same price, the cost of the seed.  Today I cut up some baby sweet peas to put in.   I spend about $40 dollars at the grocery store a week, and that's just for meat, and the fruit that I can't grow right now.
The caveat is that I don't worry myself with the people who don't want to hear it.  If they want to continue to both support and be dependent upon a food system that is destined to fail then that is their choice.  Hopefully they will not suffer too much when very few people will be able to afford to buy food.  I look at the whole permaculture debate the same way I look at politics or religion.  People are going to go with what they know until they are irrefutably proven wrong.  Then they'll do the same thing a bit longer until it absolutely doesn't work anymore.  Human beings, what are you gonna do, huh?
14 years ago
I had that problem with some container radishes I was trying this year.  I didn't use any fertilizer, but a nitrogen rich compost.  My radishes produced terrific greens, and no roots before they started going to seed.  The ones in the ground, without the compost came up right on time.  I discovered it too late for me to do anything about it, but there you are.
14 years ago

Burra Maluca wrote:
Swimming against the tide is exhausting - it's something a lot of us indulge in when we are in our twenties.  By our thirties we mellow out a little.  I'm in my forties now and am more of the opinion that it's a waste of time arguing with people and trying to prove anything - my time is better spent doing what I believe is right and hoping others will follow when they see that it's working.  It's easier for me, and more productive too. 



Here, here!  I don't even bother trying to explain to anyone anymore unless they ask.  As for the church, I would get on with the permaculture site, and help on the other plots if asked.  Home is another matter, depends on what kind of relationship you have with your wife.  My husband isn't allowed to ask me to do things he is not willing or cannot do himself, and the same goes for me. Which is why the wide of outside is solely my domain.    If you can draw the line, and it doesn't hurt anything else, including your wife's feelings, then do it.  Nothing more important than doing it the right way the first time.
Life is a series of compromises, no avoiding that.
14 years ago
I agree that the best way to show em is to do it.  Right now, I'm actually trying to scope out areas around town that are abandoned for all practical purposes to engage in some Guerilla Gardening. It's not that I don't have faith in our city officials, but with budgets stretched thin in everyone's world it's kind of hard to get people to draw away from making ends meet to try something new.  We have just enough warmth in our season to start a three sister's garden right now.  I just need to find a place to put it that will stay hidden long enough for whomever to give it a chance to grow.  Then, I'll try to lead that horse to water.
14 years ago

John Polk wrote:
The first time I ever tried it raw was at a farmer's market.  We were looking at the corn, and the farmer took an ear cut it into 4 pieces, and gave each of us one to try.  It was so good that we bought some to take home for dinner.  Getting ready for dinner, I looked in the fridge and couldn't find it.  Then I saw the four eaten cobs in the trash can...the two kids had eaten them all!

As far as roasted in the husk, YUMM!  I like to mix some chicken bullion powder (instead of salt) and red chili powder into some softened butter.  Spread it on the kernels, then pull the husks back over it and toss on the BBQ (you may need to wrap in aluminum foil to hold it all together).  Mmm, mmm good!



That sounds delicious!  Imma try that this year.
14 years ago
This is the kind of work that has re-inspired me to pursue a Forestry degree.  Many climate scientists have so little faith in people's ability to reduce the activity that causes global warming that they discount large scale forestry operations in favor of more green revolution.  I wish this guy could get more press.

Terri wrote:
Does Texas have a forestry department? A lot of the states will sell conservation-grade fruit trees for 80 cents each.

Kansas only sold plum trees this year but other states sometimes sell a wide variety of edible fruit trees.



Agree! I posted on another board that there are rural development loans that are geared towards getting people out in rural areas.  Especially with your yearly income, you would be sure to qualify. 
http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/RD_Loans.html

I don't know if this would help with imminent domain, but you could get conservation grants, get your land put in a land trust that might protect you from the state or local governments from seizing land.
14 years ago