miles mccoo

I'd like to have these trees on my property, but since they have a sensitive tap root, I figure it's a better idea to plant from seed.

If I order today, I can get ~2 months in the fridge. Most trees seem to want 3 months (at least according to the literature; I don't have a lot of personal experience)

I imagine most farms prefer to just put the seed in the ground. Somebody must supply them.

Anyone recommend a supplier of seeds I can just put in the ground?

Thanks
Miles

What are the best written resources on pond building without liners? I frequently hear mention on "don’t do X unless you know what you're doing" How does one come to learn?

I'm aware of some books or online instructions
http://www.amazon.com/Desert-Paradise-Endangered-Landscapes-Construction/dp/1603584641

There are several examples and teachings in there. In particular, I like how he talks about putting the ponds where the topography requires only small sections of dam.

FAO http://fisheries.btc.ctc.edu/Manuals/FAO%20Fish%20Handbook.pdf
Talks a little about soil types and how thick the retaining wall needs to be.

Perfect Pond. Want one? Seems to be well reviewed on pondboss.
http://www.pondboss.com/item.asp?id=11&r=store%2Easp%3Fc%3D8

Tim Matson’s books seem well reviewed on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Ponds-Building-Maintenance-Restoration/dp/158157147X

http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Ponds-Sourcebook-Owners-Resource/dp/0881503584

The earthworks kickstarter next month, of course


I’m considering buying some property an hour or two east of Portland OR, so drier and warmer. I want someplace for the kids to play. My understanding is that the soil there tends to be less clayey than this side of the cascades.


How do I get to the point where I can evaluate a property and competently build it myself or intelligently communicate with a builder?

What are the go-to resources?

You've both given me some new angles to think about. On the one hand, I feel a little bummed that the cheap land wouldn't be straight forward. On the other hand it doesn't sound so overwhelming.

I have a library copy of Lancaster's book. I will probably buy a copy. Same with Desert or Paradise. I hadn't noticed the water usage categories, but I get it, I think. If I can divert X square feet of runoff into 1, I have a higher effective rain. Seems obvious, but I hadn't thought of it that way.

Perhaps one thing you can comment on. Paul continually speaks of adding texture to the landscape. Hugelkulturs seems to be his equivalent of Holzer's ponds. Even though a hill drys out up top, it has a portion down below that is shielded from the wind. That is in the shade for a portion of the day.(depending on orientation). Maybe what's needed is digging hills and plan in between?


I'll surely have more questions. Thank you both for what you've provided.

Miles

I do think one would have to be crazy to live in AZ. I passed through there last year on a hot day, just the airport. Nuts. I grew up in Los Angeles, where it's not as hot, but here in Portland, I start complaining when it hits 80. MA is nice, I enjoyed my 4 college years there very much.

thank you, Jennifer, for an excellent answer

I have some followup questions.
On ponds. I really want some water on the property for my kids. I'd like to go to the eastern parts of the state because I can get more acreage and there are more available choices. If a pond really is out of the question in the OR/WA dessert areas, then I'll have to look more at the western parts.

Also on ponds, it seems from watching Holzer stuff, that his first answer is always "gotta put in ponds". Ask him if I should get a an Adobe house or a Craftsman, his answer will be "does it have a pond". It is just because he's way more talented at the pond thing than I would be?

fruit trees vs support species. I'm happy to do the 10:1 thing. I also know it would take a couple years to get to bearing age, so I wouldn't want to wait to even plant. Is it enough to plan similar sizes seedlings (or seed as Paul advocates) in these ratios?

last, Arizona climate is a bit different from what we have here in WA and OR. how much does that factor? Portland area gets 39"/year; way more than is needed to grow anything. 13" is about a third of that. 8" is 50% less again.

I suppose my question is a matter of how much is enough for most things? 39" is more than needed. maybe 30" is on the threshold, but you can go down to 20 if you do swales. 8 is enough if you've spent some years adding organic matter and shade. Adding a berm against the wind would give some more margin. Probably not linear. My point is not that I want an exact formula. I'm looking for an idea of how challenging the OR/WA dessert areas really are.


I grabbed these screen shots from usclimatedata.com
vs

Phoenix gets 8 inches, one of the towns I'm looking at gets 13. Also Phoenix is hotter by 20 degrees in the summer. Given that, does the problem change from "a real challenge", to "it's not too bad if you follow some basic principles"?

Miles

I'd like to throw my hat into the mix.

My wife, two young kids and I want to find a place out in the country. We live in Portland, OR now and would like some space within a couple hours of here.

I'm thinking 3-5 acres of our own would fit our wants. While we want to grow stuff and raise animals (chicken and pigs), we have no intention on making a living off of that. I've been a high tech wage slave for 20 years (I'm 42), I've saved, and I just want to spend some doing the projects that I want to do.

This thread is about an intentional community and we'd like a very loose form of that. We'd want our own 3-5 acres, though I'd be happy with sharing a larger plot if the conditions are right. I want to build probably a pair of small structures 12x16 each. I don't envision us being there through much of the winter, half the year is likely. That's where the community aspect could benefit us. Having like minded neighbours around who could notice squatters or whatever. I'd be fine with others grazing on the property

While we are there, I wouldn't just lay in my hammock all day. It'd be great to collaborate on projects. If a trackhoe needs to be rented, doing it jointly would be beneficial. Better yet, a trackhoe and a loader to Sepp'ify the land. A month rental often isn't much more than a week. Having others to bounce ideas off of would be beneficial. Other kids for mine to play with.

Those are some of my thoughts. For those on this thread that are still looking and still interested, please post or PM.

Miles

I'm on the prowl for property. I live in Portland, OR and want to be not too far from friends and family. Some of the more affordable properties are a bit east of here in the "high dessert". 13-16 inches/year. mostly dry in summer. Snow in the winter. 1k-2k feet elevation.

I'm new to the idea of permaculture. I'm about halfway through Paul's podcasts, I'm looking forward to the earthworks DVD. I've watched a bunch of the Holzer youtubes, greening the dessert. Exciting times. My brain's been infected.

I want to grow a ton of fruit and nut trees. I want berries galore. I want to raise enough chickens to supply my family (~50) and some pigs (3?). Paddock shift, Paul style.

For the dryer parts of OR and WA, I'd dig a bunch of swales. I'd like a pond or two or three. Hugelkulture mounds. The stuff in Dessert or Paradise looks awesome.

I don't intend to live there year round. Half the year, perhaps.

Grand visions

I know that folks have done great stuff in really harsh areas, but I don't know that I quite want to struggle that much. I've been to Jordan and I'm amazed that Lawton could get anything to grow there. Paul's talked of greening the Sahara.

What can a mere mortal achieve? That's the crux of my questions, two of them. As a novice, how much annual rain is needed to do something awesome? How steep before I'd have to worry about things "visiting the neighbors"?



If this has already been covered in other threads please point me there.

Excited,
Miles