Angela Burton

Sonja Draven wrote:Acadia, welcome!!

How would you suggest a brand new gardener get started if they're on a tight budget? When I lived in an apartment, I loved the idea of growing my own food but it seemed I made mistakes and ended up spending money with no food to show for it. I have more land now but still a tight budget...

Hey ! I'm a bit late to the party here, and don't have time/energy to read all the replies 1st, but have a couple encouraging ( I hope !) things to share :
#1: I super highly recommend the following YouTube gardening channels. Like, really really. Most of these practice no-till, which REALLY saves $, EVEN in the first season depending on how you kill the sod and acquire compost, because plowing, tilling and repeat tilling or mulches, aren't free, or without labor or time, either !! Huw & James are very into permaculture as well, and the others aren't exactly not.
Charles Dowding
Huw Richards
MIGardener
James Prigioni
The No Till Growers ( and I like the tomato trellis system " the trellis to make you jealous" by associate Josh Sattin, on Y.T., on his channel).
I don't market garden and I'm still not at all great at turning out wonderful heads of broccoli, but I've also had to keep moving, to temporary rental properties, these past years since I've been learning more and more. With VERY limited budget, I have hesitated to spend much on compost or I did find what I thought was a good ( cow-yard dirt from an organic practice farm), my parents farm and we'd always had superb results with the like, but what I got was from sandy soil (which my new, horrible yard is, purely) and lacked any hay or other organic matter to speak of, so, was just manurey sand which didn't hold water either, or help much. In one of our driest, also hot, summers ! So, while I've usually managed or been blessed with still a good harvest of many items, I have learned to either just do a CSA for the year or get some actually great compost brought in. And to maybe till after all, the potato bed, in addition to mounding up some compost and mulching well with hay. ( I don't have the problems with weeds from hay everyone talks about, and prefer it to straw for blocking light and staying put and not being so slimy when wet). One does need to watch out in compost, manures and hay for persistent herbicides. Ask and if they don't know, maybe pass. Research that. Anyway, going no-till overall has been amazing. Vastly less weed pressure, even when starting out, compared to tilling sod ! Again, I keep having to move ( hubby's job or family issues or etc. ) but you should be able to, by year 5, see a lot of the longer term benefits of no-till/healthy, abundant soil life, such as less pest pressures and hardy plants. That said, sometimes some areas of the nation or world just really struggle with certain pests for certain crops, such as brassicas, and/or with climate challenges, such as here in west-central Wisconsin, it often very quickly goes from too cold to too hot in spring for many cool season crops to have enough time to do well. A hoophouse ( or cold frames) can probably help a lot with that, this will be my first early spring with the homemade ( cattle panel) one I have. Meanwhile, I learned to focus on things I usually had more reliable success with. This is where asking neighbors what grows well, easily for them, helps, but also learn your own self. I, for various reasons, have long struggled with radishes whereas other, newer gardeners seem to harvest beautiful ones without half trying ! If something is cheap enough to buy at the farmer's market and/or you don't need a lot of it, it makes sense to just set that aside for a year or two ! Less losses save $ and morale ! Lastly, I'll leave you with a "game changing" solution for cucumber beetles and possibly squash bugs, which is what this was originally for, but for me the needed and highly effective benefit was against cuke beetles giving my cucumbers downy mildew and moving on to my squashes, for some years worse and worse in spite of everything else I'd tried !! Get plain tobacco ( we've bought "pipe tobacco" , it's plain, dried, chopped) and place a palm full in the soil at planting or transplanting time, with all of your cucumber and squash/pumpkin seeds/seedlings. I still had some squash bug issues on my buttercup plants at a friend's new, tilled garden but those are known to be extra susceptible to the bugs, I just read in my book "seed to seed" which us awesome seed saving resources l if you can ever borrow or buy it. No cuke beetle issues anymore, hurrah !!!

Hi again, I'm still here/back from IL. Currently renting from brother in law, basement apt., in St. Croix county. Have a decent sized garden here and a few more things at a friend's, extra garden space. Am early 40s, female, married, Christian. Very interested in local friends, am on Freesteading, not on any other social media ( besides being a YT viewer).

Hi. I just want to share what I've found helpful, in my last couple years of looking for a homestead for us ( it's a very long story as to why we're still renting right now ). Yes, Facebook marketplace can be helpful, as more people seem to be on that than craigslist nowadays. Helpful for "for sale by owner" properties, otherwise Realtor.com is the best place. It has the more up-to-date information, in my experience, compared to Zillow. I can't recall why, but I didn't find using Trulia or any others, worthwhile ( either Realtor. com was better or they were comparable and I just stuck with Realtor ). Zillow does have " for sale by owner option" and more forclosures or soon to be forclosures,  so I do check that as well. The site's main drawback is that it does NOT update the add with " contingent or pending " or "sold" promptly, AT ALL. So, it's helpful to limit your search on it to a recent time limit ( such as 1 week or 1 month ) to weed out those no longer available, especially in this hot market, and check it regularly within that time frame, for new listings.  The problem is that raw land sells much slower, land that's been listed for a year or more may still be available. But unless it's a for sale by owner, you'll find it on Realtor.com . On either, you can set up an "account " ( your email and a password ) and then "save search" and check the box for how immediately you want notifications of new listings which match that search, to your email. I search by county name, maximum price and my main other helpful requirements ( click minimum 1 bedroom but nothing for bathroom to find properties which have a dwelling of some kind but not necessarily a well, or just don't have plumbing - Amish properties and "up north" cabins will show up under this, though not all cabins have what is considered a bedroom, so I also check further into ads for land which seem higher priced than normal for that area, that's often a sign that it has some improvement on it. Or just land that has other reason which prompt me to read the ad ). You can save several searches, so I save 1 of these for the many counties I'm considering within my State. You may also want to save searches for the lower maximum price and no bedroom or bathroom requirement, to get alerts for just land, at a lower price point. For examples. Doing this is the most helpful. You'll also get emails for price reductions. If you "like" ( click the heart ) an individual property listing, which wouldn't qualify for one of your saved searches ( such as, it's a little above your max price ) , you'll get email of it's price being lowered. Always check under " property history" to find the property tax amount for recent years. They'll not always be in the ad or the data below it, but will always be in this spot unless not available at all ( property is recently parceled out ).
DO NOT use the provided links to contact the agent ! As you'll see the warning of, if you click on that, you'll be signing up to receive calls and texts from any realtor. You'll be inundated with solicitations. Instead, look over the ad to find the company and agent it's listed with, then go online to find that company's website and find the agent's phone number there, or call the main office. Have the MLS number written down, or the property's address, to tell them which one you're wanting to talk about.
Lastly, hiring your own agent to help you look can be helpful, as they will have the most immediate access to new listings which are listed with their company. But there are so many companies, unless you're looking in only 1 smaller area and that company is popular in that area, that isn't very likely to happen right now, with so little on the market ( comparably ) and although the seller often pays for your agent too, not all sellers will OR this cost will be reflected in the price you pay, anyways. Always get a title search done of course, either way. We haven't found home inspectors to be very thorough, so we don't bother with them anymore, as my husband knows a lot and now has learned even more.
Currently, there's even less new coming along, per usual in winter/during the school year, but there are some good options for under 105k in Wisconsin, on between 1 and 11 acres and near some jobs. A few, on 4 acres or less, for under 90k. Raw land for little more than 1k an acre in some areas, too ( 24 acres for sale for 26,000 just south of Ashland. Very few jobs up there, but if you don't need much of one, or can work online... ). Lots of low priced land - some with decent homes on them - in central WI and to the north all the way up to the NE border. We just want to stay near the little bit of friends and family we have in the northern Dunn county area, or we'd go for one of those.
Not that you're wanting to buy in Wisconsin, but I thought I'd add that for anyone who is.

Delia Reed wrote:Also understand this, having had raw cow milk and raw goat milk and raw sheep milk, cow milk is different from the others in that it naturally separates. It isn't fun to drink because it won't stay homogenized. It is really better for making butter. Most people have concern over taste. OK, know this, if you are using the Meyenburg store milk as an example of the terrible taste of goat milk, there are some factors that contribute to that awfulness-

1. the caprylic acid and perhaps other factors in their milk is very sensitive to pasturizaton and makes it bitter. Commercial goat butter is bitter and awful. it is ruined. If it sits too long, I can also get this flavor. But like the high brix produce, when the goats and sheep are fed high dense nutrients the milk shold be sweet and stay sweet for about 2 weeks.

2. wash your hands, wash your equipment, get stainless steel equipment without edges to hide bacteria, and don't get your fingers in the milk, don't touch the edge of the bucket that you pour from, the trick is cleanliness. There used to be a picture on the meyenburg website of a vat of milk and a staff member had her hand in it. Very, very bad.  

3. Watch the dust. I keep a paper towel soaked in H2O2 over the bucket edge (it has a half moon lid) between squeezing and pouring, as dust is our worst enemy- i need to redesign my milk room to keep it out.


And watch the goat nutrition- we fed kelp free choice and were feeding rice bran until they found it was contaminated (yes human rice too, organic too) with arsenic. And we haven't yet found a comparable replacement, until we can get the pasture in shape.

If you look at the edge of the Meyenburb carton, it says "shake well" why does it say that? Hmmm? if you don't shake well, and pour it off carefully, there is a 1/4 inch layer of darker scum in the bottom. Cream rises and it is white. When i read the Milk Book by William Douglass MD, he mentioned pus in pasteurized dairy cow's milk. Perhaps, the cow milk people are better at pouring so their pus stays in the tank and not going into the cartons. If your animal is making a thin layer of pus in the bottom of the jar after it sits for a bit, I recommend a product from franklampley.com, called Vitamix. If you fed them this by the teaspoon (some will demand more- I let them have it- they seem to know best what they need). They vitamins in there lack D and E so know that, but it has very absorbable minerals that are aminoacid chelated, which is more concentrated than any human vitamin i have seen- Human vitamins are cut with fillers. And their magnesium is often an oxide, even one of my favorite green ones.

I have found bulk vitamin powdrs to add D and E online, there are a few companies that sell thes for very reasonable. In the winter and kidding time, these are pretty important. e is a lifesaver and makes the difference between a weak, floppy non nursing kid or lamb  and a smart jumping around kid or lamb that found the teat on his own and will be completely taken care of by his own mama. There is also selenium in the trace mineral block as well as copper, and the kelp, we use both, we are deficient in everything here, even the sheep need copper.  

Hi - on the matter of the rice being contaminated with too much arsenic, I have read that the Lundberg brand has much less, something with their practices and on purpose to deal with this arsenic issue. I don't know if this is with all of their rice or only their organic, I didn't research further as I don't eat a ton of it . So, I buy their brand primarily for my rice and gluten free rice pasta as I'm allergic to gluten. I order from Vitacost online as I don't make it to those towns often enough, with time to shop ( I am all for shopping locally ) but I do know of some stores not far from me here in western Wisconsin which carry some of their products. The article I was reading on the ( arsenic in rice ) topic only said that one should limit the amount that they eat of it, especially addressing those for whom it's a staple. Do your own research, obviously ! I'm just saying that folks don't necessarily have to give up rice completely.

Hi , Newby from Wisconsin ! Yes, the market got very "hot" due to world-wide events and trends this past year, was already a sellers market, and for the past year there also have been dramatically less homes for sale, which made it even worse. While bare land is way cheaper up north, land with homes on it are more expensive in any desirable area, and cheaper in-between those areas. So, there are areas such as much of central WI, and NE WI, where one can find decent homes on a few acres for under 100k. Everything like that, at least, if it's without some major drawback ( mentioned in the ad or not ), is selling extremely quickly, and maybe above asking price, at least, the closer to larger towns/jobs, they are.
We are in process of buying a property which I found for sale on Facebook. It's a HUGE pain, time-consuming-wise, but it "pays" to look on Facebook and craigslist too, along with realtor.com and Zillow. Zillow includes for sale by owner and sometimes auctioned ones that the other doesn't, BUT it's TERRIBLE with having properties still listed which have sold ( !) and those that are pending, it doesn't say. On either, many times a property which DOES have a dwelling on it, with what can be called a bedroom, in it, it does NOT show up with " 1 + bedroom " search filter chosen. I prefer to use it, to try to find properties with SOMETHING on it, and without having to click on every piece of land for sale ( not all show a cabin in the featured picture, either, though most all do ). What matters most to us is for a property to already have a well on it ( my husband doesn't like the risk of buying a place then spending lots of money drilling one just to not get water ) so I try to search for well, since sometimes "well water" or " drilled well" don't find all that do have a well on them, but you will get quite a few in which "well" is just somewhere in the description.
Currently, only on Craigslist ( that I know of ) is an ad for a property near Foxboro ( so, probably some of the coldest in winter which WI gets ) is a 16 ( I think ) acre property with no well, but a building ( on a slab, it appears, and at ground level btw ) which seems spacious enough for a couple or small family willing to live small, and has electric, apple trees, mature mixed trees on most with trails around perimeter and a small pond and plenty of open yard for large gardens, for 80k but make offer. The apple trees really tempt me, but we'll stick with the place we're buying in more central WI which has a well and a cabin ( we have to plumb it to the cabin yet ).

I have heard of this often enough, in my quite limited interactions with the world ( in-person or online) to figure this is pretty common. So sorry ! You may want to try Workaway.info . It works like craigslist, as far as secure email relay correspondence until you decide to share other contact information with someone, and it's free to sign up as a host. Like with everything else, you may get those you don't hear back from, don't show up or decide to leave sooner than planned, but I have had really good experiences, myself. I don't know how it's all going, what with covid and all, as I paused our hosting due to moving and dealing with other things. In the 2 years I was doing it, we had about 5 workawayers stay with us, one left early due to changing plans. All were lovely young people who were hard workers, and enriched my life. I had a few other I had to turn away due to things going on in our lives, and the 1 or 2 who I didn't hear from after first few initial contacts. Anyone may be using the site for any reason, but most seem to be those who are using it to travel for fun and social or educational experiences gained by it. Since sustainable/natural living type things are popular among these types of people, there seems to be a high amount who would be attracted to a permaculture, homestead or similar type host. It helps if you live near other cool attractions, I'm sure. We didn't, really, and aren't the coolest people or had much variety on our homestead yet at the time ( we keep moving, for various reasons), and we still got applicants ! Hosts supply room and board ( meals) and can't work the guest more than 25 hours per week or 5 hours per day, per last I knew. Along with a few other work guidelines relevant to those operating a business with employees. Their travel expenses are on them, but you should help them figure out how to get to you, and obviously, may need to go a bus or train or plane to get them. I always tried to meet at a public place first, especially when sending my husband ( he worked in the city) to pick up the girls, and texted them his picture , to help them feel safe and even though I know he's totally trustworthy, I don't encourage girls to take risks. There are a few other sites like this, which I haven't checked into much yet, one is help-stay I think. Permaculture Haven ( a youtuber in AU ) started one themselves, I forget if there's is the help-stay one, or is another name. I found out about it on a vlog of theirs. Of course, if can be a lot of hassle, and no way to know if you'll get a helper in time for a project you'll be doing at a certain time, but it can be way better than no help ever ! Also, be thoughtful about if you'll need them to speak english fluently to be able to help you with certain things. God bless, everyone !

Lehman's, in Ohio I think, specializes in hand power and old-timey stuff, like the Amish and off-gridders use. Most anyone who's been around homesteading long probably knows about them, but just in case someone hasn't.. .

Thanks, everyone, for your replies so far ! Yes, my husband knows about the importance of them being sharp, and sharpening properly. We need to find a steel ( not sure on spelling) like his dad had, both his parents are passed on now. He says the steel I picked up at a thrift sale is not the same. I do know that most any sharp knife can do the job, been doing that ! After he got them quarted, I did the rest myself , this past year, as he had to be at work ( long hours) and I definitely need to learn to sharpen myself.
Will be checking out the old hickory mentioned !

Hi , we've recently become able to finally invest in some better knives for hunting, butchering, processing our venison and other animals. We plan in the future to raise either goats or beef, and pigs to butcher ourselves. My husband also occasionally gets a rabbit in the winter. What are the best quality - say, if price were not much of an issue - knives that experienced home butchers or professionals recommend ? I do plan on finding and asking some local butchers, I just want info from homesteaders as well. My best friend's husband used to work at one, and we did a deer with them one year, and he was just racing through and wasting wayyy more than my husband and I were used to, compared to his parents, who were depression kids and they wasted like nothing. Every little scrap was saved for burger.   ( the friend is a busy dairy farmer, and they're not used to being in need of the meat terribly, themselves, we guess is a reason... ). I don't know if that makes any difference on what knives get recommended, but, just in case, there you go. My husband isn't too happy with what he has for the gutting and etc. part of things, either. Gut knife I think .. . Thanks !

Hi, yes I would love a thread for this for each region, as I want to find as local of resources as possible. I also like frontier for herbs and spices, but I shop through Vitacost, an online natural foods and health supplements store. There are still many Frontier/country life buying groups around the U.S. , ask around at you local health stores and friends.
For bulk grains, since I'm not part of a country life buying club currently and wanted to just order some bulk grains without dealing with that, I found Pleasant Hill Grain, in Nebraska. I have yet to receive my order, but I was pleased with their prices, selection of Organic, and they come in sealed pails, with shipping factored into the price, per "zone" of the nation that you're in. Too bad they didn't also carry bulk salt. I want Redmond salt, country life carries it. I've been getting smaller ( a pound i think ) bags of it from Vitacost.
Garden seeds :  I also like Pinetree, they seem to grow some, at least, of the seeds they sell - or at least, grow the varieties there and comment on how they did in there climate. They have great prices, although for smaller amounts of seeds per packet, often, but that is their specialty, to offer a number more home gardeners wanted while saving them $. They have a super great variety, and offer supplies for home soap making etc.  and books. I have been super happy with germination and success with their seeds and varieties. But for a bit more local to me ( I'm im western WI ) I recently have found and like MIGardener and Nature and Nurture seeds, both in MI. The latter offers varieties that originated in MI, WI and another state I forget. I have recently ordered seeds from Everwilde, now based out of CA think, but the founders/operators are my best friend's relatives and from here. They sell in some bulk sizes and come in special envelopes ( each seed type ), resealable I think.
We've come into a little inheritance, and am using for a little prepping and just getting equipped. We now need to find out the best knives for butchering and processing venison and other animals. Local and not extremely high priced, appreciated, but we want really good knives and a quality "steel" for sharpening ( not sure of spelling), my husband's dad had one years ago, he remembers fondly. Anyone have recommendations ? I will ask in the  butchering forum thread when I get time again.