new video
hot off the press!  
    more about rocket
mass heaters here.
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic

Peer-to-Peer Themes for the Self-organizing Society  RSS feed

 
Monte Hines
Posts: 190
Location: Andalusia, IL. Zone 5a
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
thought provoking...
http://hines.blogspot.com/2012/02/peer-to-peer-themes-and-urban.html

I am a big fan of a self-organizing P2P society / democracy. I found this article very thought provoking. I personally think we are seeing P2P having a bigger influence then in the past. Recent examples: P2P response to Stop Online Piracy Act was immediate and effective, as was P2P response to Susan G. Komen for the Cure policy changes... I see P2P as a powerful grassroots tool which can overcome group think, expertise, glitzy consumerism, small group of intertwined political, economic, and knowledge elites... What do you think? ...

Regards and Respect For All,
Monte Hines
 
Ernie Wisner
gardener
Posts: 791
Location: Tonasket washington
31
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This is pretty much our business model. the problem you reach is that the experts that advise rather than lock step you tend to be look on as a burden by most people. It is difficult to make a living in this world of empirical evidence that flows slowly from a lab or from some sort of elite all powerful wizard. We teach because thats they way to empower everyone. there are somethings i hold close to my vest mostly due to the danger they represent however if i find folks who have the requisite knowledge to use these safely and continue the evolution. i will and do give out the information. however
i is getting better for us as folks figure out the P2P methods and patterns; our job becomes one of leisure in our area of hobby and feeds us back.

it does not make the transition easy when i see something ignorant being perpetrated that is going to cause harm because the practice has no biases on any existing pattern. Why does it cost a person who runs a gas heater thousands a year when a properly built RMH or masonry stove would only cost hundreds, Why is it seemingly impossible to speak to an engineer on a level footing when discussing natural building. Why is erica and i's work not considerd a real job?
 
Monte Hines
Posts: 190
Location: Andalusia, IL. Zone 5a
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ernie,

I appreciate your thoughts and feelings on this theme for the self organizing society.

Your and Erica's P2P business model is genuine and comes through big time. I can understand that from listening(3 times) to your last podcast with Paul. The integrity with which you are conducting your life's passionate work is also apparent. I think there is a "real mass hunger" for people and businesses that exhibit integrity and truth. Many people are getting tired of being taken in by untruthful advertising and are becoming sick of glitzy consumerism. In times of dwindling resources, the masses cannot afford(literally) to continue to pursue elite's consumption model.

Why does it cost a person who runs a gas heater thousands a year when a properly built RMH or masonry stove would only cost hundreds


Why is it seemingly impossible to speak to an engineer on a level footing when discussing natural building.


Why is erica and i's work not considerd a real job?


All good questions. I think you know the answers. Re:Buckminster Fuller - Bucky - "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." That "new model of heating homes-RMH/Masonary Stone" is what you and Erica are helping do. As you know, it is not easy. The journey you are on will be difficult and possibly long. You have integrity and truth on your side. I think in time, like Bucky, you will be rewarded kindly (financially and emotionally)

I am an engineer, and I say you stand on level or higher ground discussing natural building / RMH / Fire Science.

Why!


I consider your work a "real good job". You are "doing good in your job". I think the compensation question is the one you are dealing with! I think you are evolving methods which help you in those regards (easily selling plans via internet, workshops, consulting, etc.) .

build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete
- Opinion - Next steps are 1)to have relatively inexpensive standard RMH burn tunnel componets that safely and reliably meet heat requirements and 2)get financial backing to do the lab testing to garner approval of RMH design.

Brainstorm Idea for Funding... http://www.kickstarter.com/ or some other type funding from "some smart rich person / persons that are not interested in monopolizing the RMH market". Maybe someone else has ideas on this...

This is probably more comments then necessary but your efforts inspire...

Keep on Keepin' On!
With regards and respect,
Monte Hines
 
Ernie Wisner
gardener
Posts: 791
Location: Tonasket washington
31
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you Monte
The P2P model is a good one and we promote it big time. we just occasional get frustrated by the perception that no one believes its a "real job".
the reason i put us out there as an example is that it is our reality and i know it.
our business model is a good example of what needs to be and the trials and tribulations that you go through to get the P2P pattern established.
Its not easy and its allot of work but ultimately worth it. Things grow slow and strong but hey do grow. We went into this economic down turn with no debt and no bills.
Largely due to the perception that if you have any debt you have no profit till the debt is paid in full. this is a pattern that has deep roots and the modern fiat Economic models have no pattern.
We pay things forward; many times this pattern is laughed at as foolish but it works to advantage for folks who are in need because folks who feel they have what they need already, will share.
We try to teach the kids as well as adults; in ten seconds an adult and kid working together on a common goal will have better comprehension than a couple of adults alone. this pattern is as old as offspring; our children watch us for clues and every adult seems wired to teach (in one way or the other) children. in order for an adult to help a kid learn the adult has to open the learning/intuitive part of the brain and learn in over drive.
We teach in many learning styles this is also a pattern that is not usually recognized; adults will use hand signals, speech, show, expression, and touch to help a child learn. it's only our modern taboos that keep most folks from doing it to adults.

we use many other patterns but those are just a few that are good examples and come to mind. This is a fascinating thread and thanks for starting it.
 
Monte Hines
Posts: 190
Location: Andalusia, IL. Zone 5a
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ernie,

Thanks for sharing patterns... all make sense... good stuff!

Adults have trouble listening and learning. I guess their prejudices get in the way... Bucky Fuller discussed this extensively...

P2P can help make the mother earth ship head in a better direction... I think I see positive signs of this recently...

Thanks for being a P2P leader!

Hope others contribute to this thread.

Keep on Keepin' On!
Monte

P2P World

 
permaculture is largely about replacing oil with people. And one tiny ad:
Systems of Beekeeping Course - Winterization Now Available
https://permies.com/t/69572/Systems-Beekeeping-Winterization
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!