Michael Davis

Thanks for writing Leila!

These beds are in the city of Hamtramck-A city known for having to work for a living-aka lots of factories back in the day. Though soil samples from all 9-city lots have come back with the highest lead count of 250 ppm, we still think it's wise to do raised beds.

We were going to drill through the top plate and the books before driving the rebar through. Hopefully the rebar and the top board will create enough pressure to keep the phone books compressed-slowing the rate of decomposition.

What is "cobbing"?

M

I've tried attaching the file again... fingers crossed.

I started a new thread, but it looks like this might be a good place to repost.

I am considering building raised beds using stacked phone books. We'll place reclaimed 2x12 on top and driving a "U" shaped piece of rebar through the top board, the books and into the soil.

We will screen the books and remove plastic, metal and other potentially toxic materials.

Has anyone heard of doing something like this? Can anyone see any potential problems?

Mike

Hey Permies!

I'm working on a sustainable method of building raised vegetable beds out of stacked phone books. I'm planning on placing reclaimed 2x12 on top with a large "U" shaped piece of rebar driven through the top board and books and into the ground. The beds will be filled layers of leaves and compost.

The books will be screened and plastics, magnets and other inserted potentially toxic material will be removed.

I have a few of questions...

Has anyone tried this or ever heard of building a bed with phone books? (searching the internet has only shown people using phone books for compost and other crafty projects)
Beside decomposition, can anyone see a downside to doing this?

I've attached a PDF to better describe what we're envisioning.

Cheers,

Mike

Sgbotsford-

Thanks for the irrigation tip. Will look in to it.

As far as issues with pollination and being in the city, I'm not too worried. If houseflies are a true vector, there should be no problem.

Is it spring yet?

No secret.  I had initially designed a very intricate system of tubing and regulated t valves with soaker hose branches. All told close to 3-4 k. So now the plan is to scavenge regular garden hose and drill one small hole at each tree. Once water is turned on, holes will be increased to regulate equal flow.

We eat raccoons in Detroit. Srsly.

Soil tests underway. It is my assumption that these lots were residential with lord only knows what being dumped in back yards and garages.

The city currently owns the land but appears willing to explore long term lease/ sale of the property.

Security is a concern but not much can be done about it except erecting a ridiculous fence which goes against the initial aim of the project= cleaning up these ugly sores of dumped couches and garbage.

Thanks for the link to the goasis-very interesting but, like my initial irrigation system design, it might be overkill.  I think I found a responsible and adequate solution relying on reused materials! Bonus!

I'm looking to grow a community with the paw paws. The fruits to be sold at market and other products that may come from the fuit are just icing on the cake. (but some form of income must come in to cover certain bills)

The vacant lots are only a few doors down from my home so I am assuming the role of long term caretaker.

I really think that the 501C3 status will help the transition with my "departure"

Duane-I have been trying to get to Pomper to discuss my plan. Either his busy as a bee or doesn't want me cracking the KSU code without paying tuition.    I'd love to have a handfull of every variety, but for some degree of "marketablity" of the fruit, I'd like to produce as consistent of a product as possible. With Paw paws, that's already a difficult task. The plan consists of 4 varieties.  In time we are considering dropping in filburt trees, another michigan native.

I am in michigan, so we're not in an arid situation but will need to provide water to seedlings for the first 2-3 years.

hopefully we will make money but are considering 501c3 status for a number of reasons:
-We feel it would make it easier to acquire the land. the city could potentially gift us the land.
-we won't make money for the first 5 years as an orchard only. (secondary crops currently being considered)
-avoiding property taxes as a 501c3 during those 5 years would be very helpful.
-Avoiding sales tax on purchasing irrigation system supplies would be significant
-As a 501c3 we would be eligible and more likely to receive certain grants to help fund the project

But truth be told, the orchard concept came from the place of a "fun thing" to do while improving the community and not profit.

Somebody provided a link on another thread to integration farms- very similar to what we'd like to do minus the goats.

Mike D.

Hamtown Farms

Dr Temp,

There are a few seed basics
-never let the seeds dry out
-seeds need to stratify (remain cold for around 120 days)

Harvesting is easy. Just shake the tree. Ripe fruits will fall. Or try batting them out of the tree with sticks or use a hand held cherry picker.

Saplings can be tricky. If you're in the wild there's a good chance the saplings you find will be suckers without well developed tap roots. Paw paws are grove forming trees.

Many propagators like Davis and Peterson used fruit size for their wild selection to breed their cultivars. Smaller fruits may be indicative of a stressed tree that stopped sending resources to the fruit and therefore perhaps under formed seed.

I just processed a bunch of seed the other day. One thing I do not know-what start of ripeness the fruit should be in to give the seed the best chance to germinate. These things ripen quick and actually ferment. Perhaps that fermentation process helps the seed? Who knows? Certainly not me. So I'm running an experiment. I processed a separately bagged seed from fruits in various states of ripeness from borderline rotten to extra firm. More than happy to share the results this coming July.

So. Find your fruit, here in Michigan there are still a few on the trees. Remove the seeds. You can use a scrub brush and finger nail combo to remove the seed jacket. Then soak the seeds in a 10 percent water/clorox bath for 2minutes Then pack the seeds in a ziploc bag with moistened peat moss. A small handfull per 20 seeds should be enough peat. Try to suck the air out of the bag. Then toss the ziploc in the fridge for about 120 days.

The clorox bath and sucking the air out will help keep mold growth to a minimum. Should you see any mold growth in the weeks and or months to come just rinse the seeds and give them another 2 minute bath in the 10 percent water clorox bath.

In the spring (when the soil is consistently 60 degrees F) drop those puppies in the ground. By July you should see sprouts. These trees really focus on putting down their tap root before they sprout.

You can drop these guys in the ground in the fall. Late fall, when average soil temperature is near 40 degrees F.

Bear in mind what I have shared is only what I've gathered from my digging and snooping. I haven't grown squat yet.

Hope this helps.

Mike D
Hamtown Farms

I'm in the process of starting a paw paw orchard here in Michigan. Tricky tricky tree as far as nailing down the variety. The big problem... they do not self pollenate. The boy parts make pollen way before the lady parts are ready to receive it. (also know as my friday nights for the last 5 years)

So first you need two varieties, no further than 30 feet away from each other. And then you need to be sure that the one who's making boy stuff (pollen) and one who's lady parts are ready  are doing their thing at the same time.

To further complicate things, the seeds in the resulting fruit are not a guarantee of what it would germinate into. there are lots of genes in that seed and a crap shoot on which would be expressed. (q tip pollenating- collecting the pollen on q tips and waiting until lady parts are ready? maybe but for a tree that can hold 100 fruits that can be a bit tedious.

The best bet- growing roots bases from locally harvested wild seeds to ensure hardiness and grafting scion wood from known varieties. Or buying grafted trees from trusted suppliers.

I've learned a lot in the last month. The most important thing I've learned is that I have a lot more to learn.

Cheers,

Mike D.

Hamtown Farms