im back with blisters need a better shovel.kirk thanks for that advice but you missunderstood me or more likely i wasnt very clear of my intentions ,it was real late.im not circulating air to the house ,its antifreeze and im trying to figure a thermal siphon for circulation if theres no electric.damn blisters making it hard to type. i kinda thought that one thing people didnt like about the rmh was having a barrel in the house.but ive also seen the permit thing thrown about alot.if you are hiding this heater, easer to do it outside . i like the idea that when the fall weather starts coming round i can have my mass preheated and ready to go and if we get an early spring i wont suffer with over heat like a infloor.making a run to my garage also off the same mass.what pitfalls am i missing,besides the one im digging.my nabour asked if i was putting sharped bamboo sticks in the bottom,hes funny.thanks for the reply kirk im going find a better shovel and gloves ill be back later dig dig dig.