leila hamaya

as to the rest of the threads here, i think college is great if you get to study what you want, and want to learn, and also for the networking and meeting people and making connections part. i think its great if you want to really devote the time to your passions, or even just figuring out what your passions are.

not so much if you are in it mostly for get the good job afterwards and make more money. that whole latter strategy hasnt really been working right for the last decade or two, not like it did before anyway, not universally.

idk i went to a good art school on a full scholarship- all i ever wanted to do was make art, its always been clear as day that this was my path...in spite of everyone telling me constantly i would starve and be broke. so i am used to being in a whole different perspective than most, and doing it anyway because its what i wanted to do. in my defense the 90s were a different time to make a liberal arts degree look less silly. but no even then it was like get a degree in art and what like paint a picture on the back of it and maybe sell it for a hundred bucks ???!??  
i wouldnt have gone to college either time i did, first art school and later at evergreen state college, if it hadnt been free ish, where both times i went to college it was close to free, but having to scramble and work a regular job to pay for living expenses to be able to make the most of it. but yeah at the price of free ish - its very much worth it. at the price of some 100k, no way.

the thing about gertitude though is a major paradigm shift.  i mean ......the thing is, most people arent ready for the weird humble blessing of gertitiude.becuase to them its only a blessing if you squint at right... some of it is a backwards blessing...not having much, not much to lose.
gertitude actually looks like being a loser, to say it bluntly, to the majority of the population, who arent ready for that paradigm shift. at least in the so called "first world"

ah idk...hard to explain really.

we know its not about being a loser =P of course...and what something is and what it appears are different, the map and the territory and all that. but i have heard you ruminate on why gerts all over arent screaming from the rooftops about how awesome the life of a gert is...but this is part of why. gerts been told she isnt  really with the program, not making it, not a normie, not winning, basically a loser at the game of life ...but because her priorities have shifted so much she knows she is not even playing the same game. people laugh when she tells them she lives on miracles and good vibes ! or her real wealth is her mature perennials.

well many gerts...they dont even know it, they somewhat or totally believe that they are losing the game, idk maybe they are from one perspective. maybe they are imperfect and feel lacking or whatever...which ok is pretty much everyone - i dont know any perfect peeps living a life like a shiny glam commercial, some idealized moneyed life or whatever. particularly young gerts, just starting on the path to gerthood, maybe they just have some half acre rented land and a crazy landlord or some such....they ride their bike and feel like they are losing at the who has the shiniest car game, etc. they are still shaking off all those weird perceptions coming at them from the normies.

i do know some people who have had luck + privilege + maybe family money or whatevers...and to them they think things are so easy, or they get distorted perspectives because of this they arent ready to acknowledge or face. i also think in many ways the coming shifts are bringing into focus the real valuable work arent always the best paid...like for people who have been able to make quite a bit of money doing something relatively not that valueable overall...those most easily replaced by AI for instance, but who are used to making a high wage for desk jobs, etc. well i sense i am nearing a dangerous space here...but i will skirt around by saying i think some people are being notched down, and even if they dont see it, and think its catastrophic, could be good for them overall to get some much needed perspective. bad for the bank account, but good for the soul type things.

most people wouldnt choose it, most who stumble into gertitiude do so by way of failing at the normie game, and/or rejecting it, but made to feel on the fringes of the fringe, they dont count, so far off the left field they arent even looking at the same picture.

the weird thing about poverty consciousness is that it has little to do with poverty. to be able to perhaps bend the definition of gertiness to my own lens here, i dont see gert as poor, but by most metrics in this weird world, she very much is. poverty consciousness though - i see its more of an effect of having things, having enough income or the illusion of security that you fear losing it. i think a lot of people who are truly poor, get to make peace with it eventually, idk though some people are just wrecked by it, but many just learn to work with it. again a weird backwards blessing. they get frugal and smart and have a much better perspective on sustainable resource use for instance, as one of the many backwards blessing there.

so i think gert is poor person who knows she isnt poor, shes got what she needs, shes got skills, shes got land. she knows the value of community and helping and being helped. money in the bank, no money in the bank, shes still living in abudance.

Ben Brownell wrote:To sum up several preceding comments, I think the "trilemma" here (i.e. you can get at most two, not all three) is Cheap, Fertile, and Convenient. If you're not concerned about being close to much else in the way of civilization, there are options for low cost productive, sustainable living situations.

Here's a recent example in my region (paging Leila H. - nice secluded corner of Siskiyou!) with a modest two bed house on 40+ acres surrounded by public forest land, for $140k:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/10015-Eliza-Gulch-Rd-Yreka-CA-96097/15969513_zpid/

I helped a guy find a nice homestead-ready 160 acres with pasture and creeks for 100k earlier this year, same vicinity. Wildfire is a growing concern that's bringing some prices down here, but it's potentially a very manageable risk for those who know how to work with/around it, and won't be relying on bank loans.

Many rural parts of the state are struggling to retain people and economic activity right now, But if you're self-sufficient or entrepreneurial I think there's good reason to be optimistic for longer term stabilization as the next wave of sustainable/appropriate technology and lifestyle takes hold. That, and the weather's still pretty fantastic!

i do miss siskiyou county. some years ago after writing in this thread i moved from the area, right around the time we had epic fires.

the fires went right up to the edge of the place i had been living, it was weird and intense! and just....stopped like 50 feet from all the trees and gardens i had been growing.
that happened and felt like ok time to go.... and some major life changing things happening with losing my dad, brought me back to the east coast for some years.  i bought a crazy cheap but falling apart place for a song in the mohawk valley of upstate new york...and off and on have been slowly working on it in long stays there where i do what i can to get it back into shape... and been aiming my arrow at a place in southern vermont, where i originally was looking but went west of that.
but i am back in the california now, at least for the now.

an old dear friend of mine from my humboldt days inherited a neat dome house in the mountains above santa cruz (funny cause i just re read this thread and lots of people were talking about boulder creek - not too far from there), and lets me stay here, and for the now its been quite nice to ground out here and go back and forth between new york and california, staying here in california for the winters.
its so epic and beautiful here, but ridiculously expensive...which of course is relative but to me -- its crazy expensive..... me and my friend are kinda oddballs here...just lucky to be able to hang out in this place because it is paid off by his parents before they passed and when land wasnt as crazy expensive. theres a couple of tenants here in a back tiny house that pretty much means its a break even on the outrageous property taxes.

i would still suggest the siskiyou area for someone in our sort of boat as this forum draws...it is amazing, with much cheaper land thats also got water and rains and lots of green and trees...epic rivers, beautiful forests and foraging bliss considering how much national forest land and how many good edibles can be gotten.but yes its intense, its not for everyone and it is freaky with the fires. where i was living at the end of the greyback....like most of the houses that had been there are now gone. actually the area may have more good deals since the fires burned like half the town!

but yeah i suddenly have it in my head that i would like to live in a town, somewehre i can live without a car....anyway...and back east, specifically vermont but also i look at the berkshires in my home state of massachusetts (also a land of ridiculous land prices) or upstate new york...where you can literally buy a place for 10k-50k or whatever...such as it may be falling down (!)
but yeah still sort of keeping my ear to the ground for a place in vermont, not too far from a town...where i could walk/scooter /bus / train it for transport ...one of the southern vermont towns has been calling to me, with much much much cheaper fixer old houses etc...

i've not yet "ended up" somewhere!
currently i am living between northern california and upstate new york, spending part of the year in each. and thinking maybe i would rather be in either vermont, the berkshires, or oregon, and travelling around those areas too.

a big influence on the beginning of my restless roaming is not being able to live in my hometown area. growing up in an area of outrageously expensive housing - the cape cod area (my dad), and the southern shore of massachusetts (where my overwhelmingly huge maternal family still lives), where that used to be more reasonable as you headed inland (and quaint and farmy and lots of rural)- now its almost as bad as the cape area. areas i remember being cornfields, cranberries and pigs (!) or even wooded, are now overpriced McMansions. and the cape, it was always a bit pricey now its just unreal...most everyone who grows up there has to leave because theres so little affordable housing, and especially for someone making a go of being a full time professional artist. but yeah it was always expensive now its ridiculously expensive.
and now its like a movie of itself! a perfect movie of meticulous lawns and huge huge houses. there used to be more artsy people, there and on the islands, like when i was young i had some extended family who lived in nantucket, so i used to go out there and sock away money working at almost anything, but most of my family who lived there made a boatload of money selling their not even very fancy houses there many years ago. that is even more ridiculous, but i spent a few winters back there in the day, hardly no one lives there in the winter.

so yeah i've lived in a lot of places, first i settled in vermont when i was young, then washington state, then down in northern california, on the coast and then inland a bit to the klamath knot, siskiyou county way way out in the mountains.
actually in the years between washington and california i lived on the west coast loop....up the coast on the 101, maybe cut over to the 5 at some point (eugene!) all the way to seattle or even british columbia (british california i like to call it) hang out in vansterdam (vancouver) then back down to either humboldt, mendo, or out to siskiyou.
again and again, round on the loop, that was like 8 years of van dwelling with communes and short term stays in different land shares and brief rentals in between traveling.

until some years ago when my father passed i got sucked back to the cape for a while and remembered how i could never really live there to begin with. so i was aiming and looking for a place in the berkshires, which is i think where i would like to be...but my arrow went a bit west and i ended up getting a place in upstate new york.I had to find a new place to live because my living situation in the cape was becoming very toxic, so i took what i could get and afford, but i...well am not that attached to being there. making the best of the "for now", fixing up the ruin which is the first place i have managed to buy outright, and had enough to store most of my stuff in the "for now" but still putting feelers out and looking to other places.

i too have envy of people who can just root down deep in their place, i do long for that, even in my most unrooted days of traveling around. especially in those days, especially the difficult days of that, which there were quite a few, more than i remember of it...
it had some perks,of course...and i am glad i did that -- i am by nature a sort of homebody though, deeply introverted, hole up somewhere for months on end hardly talking to anyone - and yet that happened and i did it and i am glad i did. in those days anything could happen, and it did . i could drive in my little home on wheels and end up meeting some new best friends and next thing you know i was like staying somewhere for a while, or got sucked into a communal situation, big music festivals, making money with selling art, a little one woman traveling circus =)
but i was glad when that ended too, and i could hole up in siskiyoufor some years and do some big gardens, but the hills kept catching on fire! then i decided to go back east.

so yeah i dont know where i will end up. !
and i think as much as may think how green that grass is of much more grounded peeps, i think maybe my inner restlessness would make me throw it over or something, maybe it wouldnt have been as good as i imagine. idk, i have a lot of contrary motivations.
less so now maybe that i am starting to go grey. maybe i have finally settled down somewhat. i have actually only ever wanted to root down good, but circumstances and living situations ending, and communities that are unstable, and bad land mate drama, and not having a lot of money, my path has been a bumpy one.
for now, shallow roots in root new york. / northern california =)

well i have finally gotten some info, but not all of what i want to know.
theres a real lack of info on MgO, though. found a few things,  maybe post up some info here. perhaps if i really get to it myself i might make my own thread, if i do end up doing this MgO -- with lime plaster route.
not like i can give expert opinions on anything, but mostly because there seems to be a real noticeable lack of specifics online - and i think there should be more. perhaps there are members of this community on permies with a good deal more experience with specifically MgO, or at least with lime plaster walls.

one thing i really had to go through dozens and dozens of generic articles to finally get what i was seeking here -- is what kind of primer, is primer even really necessary, and is PVA just a totally unsuitable plaster primer for MgO board. one of the benefits of MgO is that its breathable, same with lime which is why they seem in my mind to be a nice matching pair.
it is as i thought, a bad idea though, being a polymer glue basically, to use PVA -- which would be the go to thing for say plastering a plasterboard or drywall "sheetrock" type wall.

so what goes on as primer, onto MgO, to get the plaster to stick, is it nothing? i still dont know that answer, if nothing is ok --its possible that nothing is needed. if i am going forward with this, or even if i instead use cement fibre board or some such -- can you straight plaster on that. of course after mudding and covering all nail holes, tape seams etc. ?
i think its possible, especially as MgO has a rough side, that to me seems like it would bond with a absecoat. like a basecoat gypsum/lime plaster...with a top coat of a lime plaster.

what i did finally get to is this, and a couple other quick references in passing that a mineral based primer would be better than PVA.so i have a bit of a list of something called beeck plaster primer, and vasari mineral primer, plus a few other brands which seem to be all in the UK or europe. but i still am wondering if nothing is ok, maybe even better, and i find no info on how different is MgO -- most references are for plastering drywall or plasterboard, or even cement board.
ah well...just spent a few days off and on looking for this...so heres some links.

https://cornishlime.co.uk/articles/primers-or-bonding-coats-key-things-to-consider-for-lime-plaster-applications/

https://cornishlime.co.uk/articles/working-with-various-backgrounds-for-lime-plaster-applications/

and this was an interesting site...with some good info in general on plasters and such, more from a perspective of people with sensitivites, which overlaps nicely with eco friendly, actually.
anywho this got me to think of this discussion, so perhaps theres some info or at least some ideas there for you.

some info -- https://www.mychemicalfreehouse.net/2014/01/natural-plasters-some-tips.html

she used a clay plaster over MgO boards, in a tiny house on wheels. thats interesting by itself, i dont think i would ever even think of any kind of plaster on a moveable structure.

and if you look around theres some good info and options and ideas for brainstorming there.

https://www.mychemicalfreehouse.net/2021/10/choosing-a-non-toxic-plaster.html

https://www.mychemicalfreehouse.net/2020/05/non-toxic-drywall-mud-and-wall-texture.html

https://www.mychemicalfreehouse.net/2024/04/zero-voc-insulation.html

on the topic of rainscreen, one thing that is totally free is - air. idk if that helps, with something already built you may have some limitations. but its something to keep in mind. an empty space can qualify as kind of rainscreen...

Melissa James wrote:Magnesium Oxide panels are a natural alternative to drywall/sheetrock. They are made from magnesium sulfate and do not contain fly ash, formaldehyde, crystalline silica, or toxins.

I've seen this installed in a house, and it looked nice. I hope to use this on a future build.

MagOx panels are mold-resistant, fire-resistant, and do not provide a food source for termites, carpenter ants, or other wood boring insects.

It comes in a variety of thickness. It adds an insulating factor for sound and temperatures.

It can be used indoors or outdoors.

Here's the website, if you'd like to learn more: https://www.magpanelmgo.com

i do think this is a great suggestion.

yeah this may be my answer, i am looking for similar solutions as the op, trying to re do some walls.
its what i have been leaning towards and researching it for a while. seems like its mostly being produced in china, though. i had picked out some suppliers on alibaba B2B site...
idk i am not quite ready to commit, but now tariffs ! idk. i may wait it out, i cant rush myself to try to buy right now, this month before the end of the de minimis.
then again maybe i do rush myself into a vague estimation of how much board i might need and try to order in the next month. even if itsjust i want some samples, i am feeling sure i can find a use for it if i go all in on getting it now and figuring it out later.

some of the things i like about it - its simple, can use for inside/ outside, floor ceiling or walls. its super versatile.
to us who are more sticklers for earth friendly, it may not be the purest material, it does involve some industrialized weirdness, but then again much less than that of some other materials, besides being less toxic than many common materials. the fireproof, no mold, breathable, all of these aspects and more make it attractive too. the price isnt that bad, at least as far as what limited sources i have been able to dig up, its maybe a bit more than plywood while being far superior, around the same as something like hardieboard, another thing i have been thinking on, or other "backer board" cement board.

they make lots of interesting finishes for it, although i have been leaning towards more of the raw type, and then do some finishing myself, using it like hardie board, or backer. as far as i have been able to figure out (research and methods is lacking, or i am not finding the best specific how to info) BUT i believe you can plaster it directly, use a gypsum/lime plaster - base coat and a lime plaster right over that, maybe some PVA or other "adhesive" before base coat.
even with the extreme added tax, it still might be my answer.
i guess the OP was looking for the really really natural -- eg clay, mud cob, etc
but i definitely think its worth exploring.

some sources i found, are all chinese companies.
this one stood out to me and i may place some small ish order see whats what and what i can do with it -- https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/A1-Grade-Fireproof-MgO-Board-Chloride_1600490450654.html
they have their own website and seem pretty solid -- https://www.zcmgo.com/product_list.html

theres so so many different types, theres all the laminated types meant to be used as is, i am mostly interested in the more raw types, or those with insulation in the mix --
like perlite-- https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/24mm-Mgo-Perlite-Board-Manufacturer-Heat_1600878765749.html
eps-- https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Soundproofing-Eps-Mgo-Sip-Sandwich-Panels_1600504324318.html
raw -- https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Premium-Strong-MGO-Fireproof-Flooring-Board_1600994895448.html
floor - and use this for outside/exterior/ and /or walls? seems like -- https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Fireproof-Mgo-Floor-Magnesium-Oxide-Wall_62220840022.html

but then they also make the thinner instant wall types, with like faux wood look, or all sorts of funky decorative wall types. --
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HPL-Magnesium-Oxide-SIP-Panels-Fireproof_10000014446772.html

if theres anyone who knows good suppliers or has any links for how tos or other info, maybe post it up. not to hijack OPs thread, but i do think MgO ( or MgsO) board is a good suggestion for the want to build with more ecologically friendly stuff - crowd. going to keep looking up info, maybe should search here on permies, although i think i did early in my exploring MgO panels and what you can do with them and didnt find that much info. yet, or maybe i do my own experiments, where i have a high tolerance for failure. i'm sure i've spent a few hundred bucks on worse ideas before =P

even with a lack of info, with some experience with plastering and clay, i feel like i could tackle this MgO board then plaster project a whole lot easier than plaster and lathe. i also like that it could be a good exterior material.

something i have been thinking about lately is the feasibility of retrofitting old interior walls with light clay straw.
of course in a new build its a different matter because you are starting from scratch, but when dealing with an old house already built, what is built and the way it works may not be immediately apparent...if you could just replace old walls with light clay straw.

sorry i have more questions than answers, but something to think on.
as far as i have gotten in my thinking is there may be a weight issue, but as long you have a sound foundation, interior walls should not be load bearing etc...i think the weight would be ok in most situations, if you would be inclined to it. to me it seems like very similar to lathe and plaster only cheaper and easier, more insulation and sound proofing....although maybe even more time consuming.
i suppose you would have to like the look and feel of earthy plaster walls though, and there are some small issues like its hard to hang pictures or put up shelving etc into a fully plastered wall..as well as where the wires/pipes/etc that may need to go through the walls, but there are ways around these things, like putting in a pipe to carry wires, or attaching wood pieces to places where you may want to hang something up, so it can be attached to the wood, like say shelving or hanging a picture.

edit to attach some links, in case you arent familiar - some random google recs
- https://www.greenbuildermedia.com/blog/the-advantages-and-appropriate-use-of-light-straw-clay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfbML5qHpu4&ab_channel=RoadrunnerFlats

permies to me has always been a bit of a virtual coffee shop, as i come here often in the morning with my coffee, although usually i am in reading quiet mode just absorbing some info on building and gardening, etc. so yeah some more stuff, with my second latte today ...today is a lot of work ahead so going for a second.

to make turkish coffee is very easy. its basically cowboy coffee with a fancy pot and no filtering, you leave the grounds in, but they sink to the bottom.
you dont actually need the pretty pot though.

depending on how strong you want it - you use more or less coffee per cup of water, and also the fine grind. the smaller you grind it, the stronger and thicker it is.
after you start the water to boil, you add the fine grounds. right when it comes to a full boil it quickly expands and rushes to the top of your pot, this is when its done and good to get it just as it does this otherwise it will flow out of the pan.
give it a stir after turning off the heat, wait a minute or three and a lot of the grounds will sink to the bottom. it isnt filtered, you just try not to get that many grounds in there, but they will sink to the bottom in the pot, and further they will sink to the bottom of the cup. that frothy yummy stuff is usually filtered out when you use a filter.

besides espresso, usually i am a french press gal, i think the french press is quite like turkish coffee, only the grounds are pressed down so none in the cup. but it has that similar frothy good stuff not getting filtered out, especially the beginning of the pour. also no electricity needed, back in new york i am off the grid so every watt counts.

my experience roasting coffee is pretty limited. i used to be able to get burlap sacks from a coffee roasting place for free - often there would be a handful of beans in each sack. so i have only tried to roast green beans once. it reminded me of making granola -- thin layer on a cookie sheet, evenly spaced out, keep stirring it up a few time while baking. you would want to cook them extra long to get darker roast/ less caffeine.

i'm a coffee holic =)
recently got an inexpensive used small home scale espresso machine and i love making a nice latte every morning, with some good quality beans ground extra fine.

In my opinion - there is no substitute for coffee !
one other thing to mention is for decaf they burn the beans extra dark. dark roast will have the least caffeine, and even a good decaf will still have a tiny amount of caffeine.