Chris Dickson

Kim Arnold wrote:

Jennifer Wadsworth wrote:@Kim Arnold: Geoff referenced "Legumes of the World" (or "LOWO") many times throughout his course. The book is expensive but the publishers (Kew Gardens) have now made the information available as an online database, check it out!

http://www.kew.org/science-research-data/lowo/index.htm

Thank you!

Ditto! Was unable to find this, the online reference will be priceless!

Michael Cox wrote:

Kim Arnold wrote:I have this question every single time I watch one of his videos: Part of Geoff's formula for designing permaculture seems to rely on leguminous trees. I've searched, and haven't found any that grow in my area (USDA Zone 5). Are there substitutes for that -- other kinds of trees? groundcovers? different kinds of shrubs maybe?

Thanks!

I think alder is n fixing - not sure if it will cope with zone 5 though.

Thanks, I was trying to illustrate my question. I don't really need to know a species, I want a place (or places) to go find alternatives. In your response for instance, Alder would work, or Black Locust, but my client Hates Black Locust and doesn't really like Alder, where can I go to find alternatives, or what method can I follow to replace the functions I might be using the Black Locust or Alder for....more of a 'where do I go to expand the species I have knowledge of and am comfortable in recommending in a design'. Thanks for your input though, obviously my first attempt wasn't clear

Can you give me a good methodology or good web sites to research plant functions. I understand the guilding process but I often struggle with the "tree forrest recipe". I don't necessarily need a specific recipe (although this would certainly be nice and easy), but what is a good methodology for researching the species that go in that recipe. I often suffer almost a creative block when faced with "I need an overstory tree that will go with an apple understory and provide nitrogen fixation and bio mass production for chop and drop pruning or copicing, then I need a shrub that will help with insect habitat and might provide another edible feature or also fix nitrogen, etc. etc. etc."

Thanks

Cj Verde wrote:

Eva Taylor wrote:What if I had just eaten the bear? I had to buy my sheep, build a barn, fix fencing, water, hay in winter. There was way more input in the sheep, The bear was already there. I made it hard on myself by not just observing that point before buying the sheep. Now I can put an orchard in the sheep pasture.

If you are practicing permaculture you would've already noticed the bear before buying the sheep.

hrmmph...already with the 'if it's not the way i would do it then it's not permaculture stuff...maybe the bear wasn't there to observe before the sheep arrived for it to feed on. My reading says permaculture is NOT a destination, but the journey. You're going to architect your system and never ever change it because Nature is oh so static right?

...
Then, if we choose to harvest these wild animals, we're putting energy into that process. More energy to hunt a wild animal than to slaughter a domestic one. Equal energy to process each. Again, getting the meat on the table takes energy inputs from us.
...

Sigh, starting behind already. Story of my life ...I will catch up my reading (re-reading) tonight I guess. I do have a small thought on the wild animal discussion. I would debate that the wild animals take any energy inputs from us. I live in the central US and things that I plant for nitrogen fixing/cover crop (clover, alphalpha, vetch, rye, etc.) are all strong attractants for wildlife. I would argue that I'm able to harvest more/larger deer as a stacked function of nitrogen fixation admittedly there may be an additional step or two in harvesting said animals vs. one raised inside the electric fence! but at the same time I didn't have anything to do with the stocking/breeding of said animals either. They just 'showed up'.

Sorry, read my OP and it wasn't very clear. I was planning on planting a subset of the pasture in wheat and taking it out of the rotation. When I said 45 day rotation, I meant I've identified enough paddocks that I create with temp electric fence that I come around to each about every 45 days or so. I set this up after reading some about Allan Savory's work with restoring pasture lands with cattle impact. My paddock mix should provide nitrogen fixing (clover and alfalfa) along with the fodder. After listening to your recommended podcast, I may have to rethink my methods.

Thanks a bunch!

I've been contemplating a pasture rotation system that incorporates grains. I have pasture in a mix of white/red clover, alfalfa, orchard grass and perennial rye grass. This is unused for anything but deer forage right now. My plan would be to use temp electric fence to rotationally graze on a 45 day cycle, first graze would be cattle, followed by chickens, I would then like to plant wheat using the Bonfils method. My question is, will the cattle eat the wheat stalks if I leave them long in the ground? I would like to save labor and resources by just taking the grain heads and leaving the stalks standing.