Alex Sandoval

Thanks for your answers Xavier.

Perhaps my questions were a bit unfair. The ethics of permaculture have more to do on why to use the techniques rather than how. The inspiration versus the mechanics if you will and I was wondering if their is something in the concept of Permacredits or it's own mechanics that would reflect this directly. From your answer is seems you are looking to people practicing permaculture to participate and provide this.

Secondly, economics and fiat currency, including digital currencies, are not natural systems. They are man made and come complete with many flaws. Our current economic system strips us of any identity, values, character, or virtue other than a cog in the machine. Economics have had systematic corruption in the ingrained policy that feed off the symptoms of the problems it funds in some vain attempt to raise the level of the GDP in hopes it will serve everyone in a quantity versus quality response. I love the fact that you are attempting to reclaim it with this manifestation on the internet and doubly so that you would be willing to put your resources behind it but it is still a fiat currency. With any fiat currency it only holds value because of belief in it. I say you are selling something not in that you are actually trying to gain our money or resources but you are attempting to gain our trust and belief in Permacredits as valuable in some kind of segregated or insulated group from the norm. Now I am not exactly thrilled with our current fiat system but I don't have another option to bring to the table. It seems to me you want to bring Permacredits to the table as an alternative to our current fiat system. There is no problem with this. Just wondering if this is a frying pan and fire situation. A big part of the problem with our system today is that our responsibilities and virtues are not appealed to, only more rules made to stop repeat mistakes and better incentives created for us to follow the new rules and it only serves to make us mindlessly follow the rules not because it's the right thing to do but because we are getting something for doing it. How would the practice of Permacredits be different from this?

Finally on sustainability, the internet and this new phenomenon of Bitcoin/Permacredits are dependent on our culture's affluence. Now I love having the internet and will use it to the best of my ability while it is here but seeing this as a permanent and lasting medium is a great stretch of the imagination. There will come a time when we can not support the internet. I can see some merit in investing only in projects that are local to me, if any exist, but does Permacredits have a contingency plan for Permacredits demise or adaptation to a medium other than the internet?

I guess the questions I have for Xavier Hawk is first how are the ethics of permaculture upheld within the framework of
Permacredits?

I understand that it is community based rather than controlled by some "powerful" individual but what is to stop the "community" from corrupting it into something of an infinite growth, money hungry, consumerism based vehicle? I guess despite your video and explanation, I am still left wondering if this is genuinely permaculture or if it is just the permaculture label slapped on it to sell it. Without fulfilling all three ethics, you are inviting more of the same old.

The more I study permaculture the more I see relationships and all of their infinite dynamics. What kind of characteristics of relationships can we expect, either good or ill, between contributors, receivers, sponsors, the projects, project resources, the community of contributors, internet community, permaculture community, the community at large, the local community, Bitcoin, Permacredits, any fiat currency...

I have concerns about the measuring criteria as well. For each different permaculture designer you will have a distinct and different design however, your contributors only measurement of success is returns of value on Permacredits based on comparisons of production of one project from another. Permaculture designers today even rename or abandon the label of permacultue partially due to pressure from others practicing and designing permaculte projects that have differing opinions of the details of their work. Sepp Holzer comes to mind with his Sepp Holzer Permaculture.

Questions of Permacredits sustainability come to mind as well. An intangible digital fiat currency, an algorithm, expectations, and cultural norms modeled after an affluent industrial consumerism predecessor, mob rule with vague and almost contrary reference to a key permaculture ethic, and distributed and controlled over a global rather than local medium and community. I don't think it is impossible but there are a lot of tough questions that need to be addressed before Permacredits should be labled permaculture.

I am a little worried about the permaculture ethics not lining up. They are claiming care of people and care of planet which are great but setting limits and sharing the excess is not things that are normally thought of when you mention profits.

I want to believe in the permacredits but this is the biggest hurdle that has to be addressed to calm concerns of the corruption of rampant consumerism.