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Bitcoin for Permaculture? - Permacredits.com  RSS feed

 
Andrew Scott
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Has anyone seen and/or developed opinions of the new permacredits.com project?

From their "About" section:
permacredits.com wrote:"Permacredits are the first true asset backed crypto currency on the market. They are powered by the Eco Developments, Permaculture institutions, and members in our network. When you buy Permacredits you are buying membership in a global network of Eco resorts, Sustainable living spaces, Permaculture farms, Retreat centers, Eco Developments, and more. These credits can be used at any of our network member locations for goods and services as well as be traded on the open market as an appreciating crypto currency asset class.

Our goal is to build profitable dynamic permaculture based living environments for our members. These futuristic high end dwellings encompass all the amenities of modern living set in inspiring permaculture systems who's triple bottom line is Profits, People, and Planet...and you get fresh produce!

Our development projects are hand picked by our Permaculture "Jedi" Council to ensure their standards, low impact, and profitability. They must meet permaculture, and in many cases biodynamic, growing standards. Must rejuvenate the soil, and they must produce ridiculous profits. Join our team and help develop the world of Permaculture and Paradise living."


I was at another session during Xavier Hawk's presentation at Permaculture Voices, but it looks like he's posted a version of it:


Personally, I'd like to see something more in line with what Charles Eisenstein lays out in Sacred Economics, but I do find this interesting at least.
 
Abe Connally
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so it's a centralized solution for a decentralized technology?

Why shouldn't Permaculture operations just take bitcoins?

This part is suspicious:
We will have open windows for purchasing CREDITS directly from Permcaredits.com. This will happen twice a year initially, just before each Solstice. The capital raised, which will be used to fund Permaculture-Based, Triple Bottom Line Businesses, will be issued to those projects on the Solstices. You will need Bitcoin to purchase Permacredits.


So, basically, give this website your bitcoins, and they will distribute them to projects they want funded. You are basically trusting this website to invest in permaculture projects, using your money. I think it would be much better to just invest in the projects directly, and avoid the middle man, centralization, counterfeiting, etc.

It sounds like a pyramid scheme.
 
Matu Collins
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"Ridiculous profits" ??!
 
Andrew Scott
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Abe Connally wrote:so it's a centralized solution for a decentralized technology?

Hard to say without more details, but I suppose they could be using Open-Transactions, which is a "trust no one" architecture for trading various financial instruments, including Bitcoin, that aims to replace exchanges and obviate things like the Mt. Gox debacle. That would decentralize the currency part of it, but yeah... centralization in a "Jedi council" brings out my skepticism as well.
 
Andrew Scott
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Abe Connally wrote:Why shouldn't Permaculture operations just take bitcoins?

Guess they updated and changed some things since the thread was started yesterday. They're using CounterParty, which I'm not yet familiar with.

permacredits.com wrote:"Since this is bitcoin 2.0 in action and rides on Bitcoin's blockchain you can store your CREDITS in any bitcoin wallet. This is advantageous for things like text message bitcoin wallets.

...You will need Bitcoin to purchase Permacredits. You easily can purchase your Bitcoin HERE through Coinbase, our merchant service provider. They are the most trusted, well established, and easy to use interface on the market.

...Each quarter the projects in our network that have been funded by the Permacredit ecosystem will buy Bitcoin..."

There's now also verbiage there talking about gift economies and return of surplus, but it's still a little hazy. I hope I'm wrong, but the video still makes it feel like the net effect is the commodification of as much as possible within the "kingdom", including the social relationships of those within the community. Since the commodification of social relationships destroys community, I'm having a hard time squaring the whole thing.
 
Matu Collins
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Andrew Scott wrote: Since the commodification of social relationships destroys community, I'm having a hard time squaring the whole thing.


me too.
 
Abe Connally
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yeah, it just seems to be a layer on top of bitcoin, set up in a way to centralize the transactions and interaction. I am left wondering why we need that.

I'm skeptical of this, because Bitcoin accomplishes the same goals WITHOUT having a centralized "council" redistributing your money.

To me, it looks like a way to add a middle man for the sake of adding authority and calling it permaculture.

meh.
 
Alex Sandoval
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I am a little worried about the permaculture ethics not lining up. They are claiming care of people and care of planet which are great but setting limits and sharing the excess is not things that are normally thought of when you mention profits.

I want to believe in the permacredits but this is the biggest hurdle that has to be addressed to calm concerns of the corruption of rampant consumerism.
 
Andrew Scott
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Alex Sandoval wrote:I am a little worried about the permaculture ethics not lining up. They are claiming care of people and care of planet which are great but setting limits and sharing the excess is not things that are normally thought of when you mention profits.

I want to believe in the permacredits but this is the biggest hurdle that has to be addressed to calm concerns of the corruption of rampant consumerism.

Yes. Putting the "triple bottom line" concept at the root of the project would seem to embed some infinite growth / progress mythology into the endeavor. An argument might also be made that "eco resorts" and "retreats" have the effect of reinforcing the status quo patterns of alienated life while casting permaculture in the light of temporary escapist fantasy.
 
Andrew Scott
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For the time being, Sacred Economics remains the best lens I've come across to analyze the intersection of money, economics, and permaculture. Here's a quickie view of the main points from "Chapter 17, Summary and Roadmap"

Charles Eisenstein wrote:
1. Negative-Interest Currency
2. Elimination of Economic Rents, and Compensation for Depletion of the Commons
3. Internalization of Social and Environmental Costs
4. Economic and Monetary Localization
5. The Social Dividend
6. Economic Degrowth
7. Gift Culture and P2P economics

Permacredits seems at least somewhat incompatible with points 1, 2, and 6.
 
Sean Henry
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I'm keeping my eye on this coin to see how it progresses. The good thing is that it will be running on top of bitcoin so the network is already there and running.

I want to see how the system will be when it is up and running being able to set up contracts in the system could be mice when setting up CSAs or having people invest in a permaculture farm where profit charing is automatically distributed based on the contract and terminated at the final payment.
 
Xavier Hawk
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Hey y'all,

This is Xavier Hawk. I'm the lead on permacredits.com

I'm really glad you all are discussing it and have some cogent and intelligent questions.

I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about the project.

Some points:
1. The projects that get funded are decided upon by the whole community of credits holders. There is not a small select group of old white men deciding. You will be in an ecosystem of intelligent, disruptive, creative, and genuinely invested people like yourselves who want to see a healthier more same world. Everyone who holds credits up votes and down votes the projects into the funding queue.

2. All the decisions are made in a decentralized governance app that you become a member of when you buy your first credit.

3. Whomever it was that said the funds, and processes were built on the blockchain in smart contracts was correct. The funds are controlled by "trust less" contracts that execute themselves once certain criteria are met such as: "if the project gets a 2/3 majority up vote by the community, and they get three sponsors from the council then the wallet sends them the funds to begin operations"

4. The Bitcoin funds raised during the issuance window go directly into smart contract controlled wallets whereby upon completion of the parameters the wallets immediately and automatically disputes the funds to those projects.

5. This is the first truly decentralized currency issued and controlled by the collective coherence of the people involved. Unlike other currencies which have "trusted" authorities determining the inflation rate and more, this is truly a leveling of the playing field and constructing a system whereby the people involved collectively determine the rate of inflation and number of credits issued.

6. This is not not will it ever be a privately held institution. I have already turned down several very eager VC's each offering millions of dollars worth of start up capital who wanted shares, ownership and directorship seats. I have flat out refused and even cussed one of them out. I am setting this up to be run and managed by the community. I have even built in my exit as first user. You can't buy me. I will hold a position on the council like any other and my own projects will go through the Eco system like any other. It is important that no one has any trusted position here. The only way this works is if it is decentralized.

7. There are no contracts or obligations either. When a VC firm "invests" in a project they mostly insist on managerial positions and board seats. This is not the case here. We are utilizing an ancient wisdom tradition of gifting economies. We gift each project their funds. They are not obligated not contractually obligated to pay it back. They gift surplus back. This is open and recorded on the blockchain and each organizations contributions are displayed in the permacredits app. This everyone sees the gifts coming in. Iwe recommend 15-33% profits be gifted back in like you would too a waiter. Everyone will see the amounts and a precedent will be set and become the cultural norm within the community. If two Eco villages are of equal size and scope and one gifts 20K and the other gifts 100K people will notice and crowd source solutions to help Eco village 1 reach base line optimization.

I hope all this helps.

I am really excited about the possibilities that Permacredits have to jump start the world of permaculture and decentralized human self governance.

Never before in our known history has such a global solution to debt slavery and the war machine been so available and implement able.

What is really inspiring to me is the issuance of financial instruments and currency truly being in the hands of the people. To me permacredits are the path to human sovereignty and liberation...

Now people across the globe who truly want a just and sustainable world can energetically support that worlds growth and benefit from it directly.

Again, I am open to questions. It is important to me that people understand what we have here and see who I am and what values I operate with.

-X
 
Alex Sandoval
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I guess the questions I have for Xavier Hawk is first how are the ethics of permaculture upheld within the framework of
Permacredits?

I understand that it is community based rather than controlled by some "powerful" individual but what is to stop the "community" from corrupting it into something of an infinite growth, money hungry, consumerism based vehicle? I guess despite your video and explanation, I am still left wondering if this is genuinely permaculture or if it is just the permaculture label slapped on it to sell it. Without fulfilling all three ethics, you are inviting more of the same old.

The more I study permaculture the more I see relationships and all of their infinite dynamics. What kind of characteristics of relationships can we expect, either good or ill, between contributors, receivers, sponsors, the projects, project resources, the community of contributors, internet community, permaculture community, the community at large, the local community, Bitcoin, Permacredits, any fiat currency...

I have concerns about the measuring criteria as well. For each different permaculture designer you will have a distinct and different design however, your contributors only measurement of success is returns of value on Permacredits based on comparisons of production of one project from another. Permaculture designers today even rename or abandon the label of permacultue partially due to pressure from others practicing and designing permaculte projects that have differing opinions of the details of their work. sepp holzer comes to mind with his sepp holzer Permaculture.

Questions of Permacredits sustainability come to mind as well. An intangible digital fiat currency, an algorithm, expectations, and cultural norms modeled after an affluent industrial consumerism predecessor, mob rule with vague and almost contrary reference to a key permaculture ethic, and distributed and controlled over a global rather than local medium and community. I don't think it is impossible but there are a lot of tough questions that need to be addressed before Permacredits should be labled permaculture.

 
Xavier Hawk
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First off, thank you for your consideration and intelligent queries.

My responses are below in line with your questions. I hope they help you understand the what whys and how's of permacredits.


I guess the questions I have for Xavier Hawk is first how are the ethics of permaculture upheld within the framework of
Permacredits?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The wonderful thing about permaculture that I appreciate most are the common core fundamentals that drive the ethos. For me they are irrespective of the strategies. If gentleman one believes his strategy is permaculture and gentleman two believes his strategy is permaculture though they look wildly different, and yet they both achieve the highly efficient nature based results in building soil, rejuvenating Eco systems, and creating abundant self sustaining systems of production...then to me they are both exemplifying the fundamentals of permanent culture.

That being said my way of thinking about this may not be THE way and therefore it will truly be up to the community of credits holders to decide the standards.

To this end I am imploring the people of the permaculture world to get involved and help set the bar.

I see this as an opportunity for intelligent, regenerative, permaculture designed projects to find financial nutrients to enable their operations and lay claim to defining the way the earth takes care of itself. It is my assertion that given the opportunity to demonstrate healthy business practices based on regenerative permaculture designs businesses and indeed entire sectors will emerge and begin unraveling the devastation generations of unchecked civilization growth have wrought.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand that it is community based rather than controlled by some "powerful" individual but what is to stop the "community" from corrupting it into something of an infinite growth, money hungry, consumerism based vehicle?

What is to stop our society from doing that now? Indeed that's what has been going on.

Would you have me write rules in stating that each employee of projects seeking funding must receive only 100K salary no matter their position from CEO to janitor? Should I write rules dictating that only businesses that rejuvenate soil are allowed in? Or should it be decided upon by the people involving themselves?

This being said each project in order to get the funds allotted to it must fulfill a smart self executing contract. For example lets say they must get a Quorum vote of 3/4 to be upvoted. Then they must attract 3 sponsors one in each discipline, permaculture, business, and social economics. Those sponsors must accept the bounty contract for that project. Then they must also show proof of insurance on the funds, and once they meet those three criteria and enter the proper documents onto the blockchain then the wallet automatically opens for them.

The permaculture standards would be upheld at the council person/ sponsorship level. The vetting is done there by the three council members who volunteer to sponsor a given project.

Though only three sponsors are needed per project, the pool of council members who can sponsor projects can be quite large and is voted in by the community. But the projects they can choose from are first upvoted by the whole community.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess despite your video and explanation, I am still left wondering if this is genuinely permaculture or if it is just the permaculture label slapped on it to sell it. Without fulfilling all three ethics, you are inviting more of the same old.

Indeed. But frankly I don't need to sell anything. The projects who are seeking funding are displaying themselves and marketing themselves. I believe the need for sponsors to vet each project and ensure that they are meeting the standards we all decide upon is one way we ensure what I believe you to be reaching for and that's quality control. Please correct me if I am wrong.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The more I study permaculture the more I see relationships and all of their infinite dynamics. What kind of characteristics of relationships can we expect, either good or ill, between contributors, receivers, sponsors, the projects, project resources, the community of contributors, internet community, permaculture community, the community at large, the local community, Bitcoin, Permacredits, any fiat currency...

That's a tough question. It's quite broad. What I see is a gift economy based on good will and genuine trust in a better way.

For me it is a way to have stake in an ethos. For me it is a way I can actively support that ethos, the projects exemplifying that ethos, and the people who live that ethos....people I would honor and respect as relatives.

I believe in the ethos of permaculture, the people involved, and the projects I see everyday on Facebook and through friends and associates. I believe that I can support that way of being and doing and mutually benefit from its expansion. The expansion of the idea, the permeating way of living that is in balance with the systems we find ourselves a part of. That is permaculture. This is the permaculture of finance and vested interest.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


I have concerns about the measuring criteria as well. For each different permaculture designer you will have a distinct and different design however, your contributors only measurement of success is returns of value on Permacredits based on comparisons of production of one project from another.

No, the value is credits as a currency with companies who wish to support our ethos and accept them, and also a token that as projects in the ecosystem gift network surplus back into the system it gets spread across all credits. The idea is that as network surplus is created it is split among all credits such that bitcoins show up in your wallet when any project tips back into the ecosystem. The value of each credit will be decided by the market, and if people are getting bitcoins regularly they aren't going to sell cheap.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Permaculture designers today even rename or abandon the label of permacultue partially due to pressure from others practicing and designing permaculte projects that have differing opinions of the details of their work. sepp holzer comes to mind with his Sepp Holzer Permaculture.

I appreciate the distinctions you are making here, however I would refer back to what I said earlier. If gentleman one says his way is permaculture and gentleman two says his way is permaculture and they both achieve the same goals, then why bother with semantics.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


Questions of Permacredits sustainability come to mind as well. An intangible digital fiat currency, an algorithm, expectations, and cultural norms modeled after an affluent industrial consumerism predecessor, mob rule with vague and almost contrary reference to a key permaculture ethic, and distributed and controlled over a global rather than local medium and community. I don't think it is impossible but there are a lot of tough questions that need to be addressed before Permacredits should be labled permaculture.

I don't understand the question here.

Fundamentally this is a gift economy based vending machine where you put bitcoins in a slot and get credits in return. You can use those credits as currency at any location that accepts them. The bitcoins you put in the vending machine go directly to projects you choose. No one touches the bitcoin except those projects. As those projects succeed they tip network surplus back into wallets that automatically split them up among all credits. Again no one touches them but you.

The projects are picked by you, the people who vet the projects after you pick them are chosen by you, and the amount of projects (therefore the inflation or deflation of the amount of credits) is chosen by you. No trusted third party, no bank, no shenanigans.

Its money for the people, by the people, and it's based on regenerative permaculture triple bottom line principles. Make the planet healthier.

I hope this all helps!

I love the questions and consideration!

-X
 
Alex Sandoval
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Thanks for your answers Xavier.

Perhaps my questions were a bit unfair. The ethics of permaculture have more to do on why to use the techniques rather than how. The inspiration versus the mechanics if you will and I was wondering if their is something in the concept of Permacredits or it's own mechanics that would reflect this directly. From your answer is seems you are looking to people practicing permaculture to participate and provide this.

Secondly, economics and fiat currency, including digital currencies, are not natural systems. They are man made and come complete with many flaws. Our current economic system strips us of any identity, values, character, or virtue other than a cog in the machine. Economics have had systematic corruption in the ingrained policy that feed off the symptoms of the problems it funds in some vain attempt to raise the level of the GDP in hopes it will serve everyone in a quantity versus quality response. I love the fact that you are attempting to reclaim it with this manifestation on the internet and doubly so that you would be willing to put your resources behind it but it is still a fiat currency. With any fiat currency it only holds value because of belief in it. I say you are selling something not in that you are actually trying to gain our money or resources but you are attempting to gain our trust and belief in Permacredits as valuable in some kind of segregated or insulated group from the norm. Now I am not exactly thrilled with our current fiat system but I don't have another option to bring to the table. It seems to me you want to bring Permacredits to the table as an alternative to our current fiat system. There is no problem with this. Just wondering if this is a frying pan and fire situation. A big part of the problem with our system today is that our responsibilities and virtues are not appealed to, only more rules made to stop repeat mistakes and better incentives created for us to follow the new rules and it only serves to make us mindlessly follow the rules not because it's the right thing to do but because we are getting something for doing it. How would the practice of Permacredits be different from this?

Finally on sustainability, the internet and this new phenomenon of Bitcoin/Permacredits are dependent on our culture's affluence. Now I love having the internet and will use it to the best of my ability while it is here but seeing this as a permanent and lasting medium is a great stretch of the imagination. There will come a time when we can not support the internet. I can see some merit in investing only in projects that are local to me, if any exist, but does Permacredits have a contingency plan for Permacredits demise or adaptation to a medium other than the internet?



 
Andrew Scott
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Xavier Hawk wrote:
Alex Sandoval wrote:The more I study permaculture the more I see relationships and all of their infinite dynamics. What kind of characteristics of relationships can we expect, either good or ill, between contributors, receivers, sponsors, the projects, project resources, the community of contributors, internet community, permaculture community, the community at large, the local community, Bitcoin, Permacredits, any fiat currency...


That's a tough question. It's quite broad. What I see is a gift economy based on good will and genuine trust in a better way.

For me it is a way to have stake in an ethos. For me it is a way I can actively support that ethos, the projects exemplifying that ethos, and the people who live that ethos....people I would honor and respect as relatives.

I believe in the ethos of permaculture, the people involved, and the projects I see everyday on Facebook and through friends and associates. I believe that I can support that way of being and doing and mutually benefit from its expansion. The expansion of the idea, the permeating way of living that is in balance with the systems we find ourselves a part of. That is permaculture. This is the permaculture of finance and vested interest.

[...]

...the value is credits as a currency with companies who wish to support our ethos and accept them, and also a token that as projects in the ecosystem gift network surplus back into the system it gets spread across all credits.

[...]

Fundamentally this is a gift economy based vending machine where you put bitcoins in a slot and get credits in return. You can use those credits as currency at any location that accepts them. The bitcoins you put in the vending machine go directly to projects you choose. No one touches the bitcoin except those projects. As those projects succeed they tip network surplus back into wallets that automatically split them up among all credits. Again no one touches them but you.


Xavier, you mention gifts and gift economics multiple times, and I'm having a hard time finding the elements of what an anthropologist, or someone like Marcel Mauss (author of The Gift) or Charles Eisenstein (author of Sacred Economics) might call a gift economy in the permacredits vision as I currently understand it. Indeed, permacredits seems to follow a primarily capitalist model. The examples in the video of converting traditionally free social components (e.g., childcare) of life into abstract values measured in credits seems antithetical to gift economics. The dividend may be compatible with the return of surplus ethic of permaculture, but that alone seems very far away from the social dynamics embedded in gift economies. What am I missing in the gift economics picture?

Have you read Sacred Economics? I don't ask for any reason other than to see if we might have a basis for discussion. While a few of his chapters touch on gift economics specifically, Chapter 1, "The Gift World" sketches an outline.
 
Daniel Quinn
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Thankyou Andrew for mentioning charles Eisenstein as a lenses through which to look at this. Charles has an article on the P2P foundation about bitcoin... I think the main way this can become useful is if it works for the 6 billion people without smart phones. We need paperwallets with permaculture gurus as the heads and successful eco villages and land projects as tails. I would love to see a global remittance network with the stake holders being permies.
 
Daniel Quinn
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Forwarding an Email from Xxavier Hawk.
Greetings Everyone,
Just got back from Bitcoin in the Beltway in DC and the inside
Bitcoins conference in Hong Kong. Both events were spectacular. We
made a lot of powerful connections, met new friends, and caught up
with friends we haven't seen in a while.
Lets dive straight in.....
The postponement of the launch was for a couple purposes. We wanted
to ensure the jurisdiction we launch in is sound, that we are
properly lawyered up, and also to begin building the Permacredits
Manager App.
Ever since pushing the Launch back to the Equinox, we have been
working diligently on building a marketing campaign leading up to
Sept, adding more team members, working on the Permacredits Manager
App, building strategic relationships, writing launch docs, and
securing funding.
We have made progress in all these fronts in order to have the most
impactful launch possible.
We have gotten a verbal commitment on $700K seed round funding and
are negotiating a deal for $1.3Mil more. If you want to be a part
of this see below.
We have added some new team members, Liz Reitzig, John Bushe' ,
and Evan Stern.
Liz is a PR powerhouse and activist well know in the Farmers
Advocacy world, and co founded Farm Food Freedom Coalition. John is
one of the leading Zero Waste Experts in the country and is heading
up a very special initiative involving municipal Credits. And, Evan
is an astute businessman with a penchant for closing deals.
We have the outline for a Marketing Campaign complete with a
reality series, a television commercial, interviews, articles and
more. If you would like to be involved in this aspect see below.
We are partnering with Hive one of the easiest to use, most robust,
and secure wallets on the market for our wallet and bounty
services, growing closer with Counterparty and helping develop some
specific functions on that platform, entering into talks with
Payment Processors, connecting with Maidsafe on the Farmer
initiative, and more.
The Launch material ive been working on will include a Deck Sheet,
Instructions, a new explainer video, and a formal white paper
explaining the ecosystem completely. Expect to start seeing that
released towards the end of summer.
We have gathered a core team of Devs for the Manager App, which is
where you will log in to see all the projects, vote on them, create
and accept bounties, manage your Permacredits (and bitcoin), and
socialize.
When i sit back and look at the progress we have made, im
astounded.
All of this is really quite exciting actually.
If any of you have a desire to get closer to the action, want to
know how you can help, or wish to invest before the launch please
feel free to write me on whichever area of interest you have. Use
the subject: READY so it goes into the correct folder.
look forward to more updates as we grow closer to the launch.
In Service,
-X
"Local Currency for the Global Permaculture Movement"
99 Treehouse Lane, Burnsvilel NC 28714
 
Daniel Quinn
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Adam B. Levine is a permaculture designer who's project of the last 2.5 years has been starting a media network around the ideas in KRYPTO-Currency and the New Digital Economy. He just launched LetsTalkBitcoinCoin, A user generated currency which is build atop the existing bitcoin, for the purpose of crowdfunding a media network that tweaks the "content for donation" model for media and content creators. And vests the audience and critical commentators as stakeholders on the platform. To listen to his explanation of this model listen to episode 122... CURISOSITY MUSIC CROWDFUNDING
 
Christopher Knight
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Is this website a joke, because according to the website they have not yet sold any permacredits. They say they will sell them every solstice, and that was already over a year ago.
 
Irene Valdés
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I recommend you read this good opinion:

http://network-economies.com/permacredits-not-fit-philosphy-permaculture-freicoin/
 
amarynth leroux
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I would like to weigh in on this, both on Freicoin as well as on permacredits.

It is a great idea to design a coin and financial ecosystem (and now we can leave the fiat world and design our own currency within permaculture) for the permaculture world specifically. There is a lot to discuss there, both in terms of technical expertise which needs to be excellent in this crypto world, as well as what would fit permaculture. It is an exciting future development to create our own added value inclusive of the permaculture ethos.

My view though is that it is way too early for that. I would rather find a way to integrate Bitcoin into the ecosystem to get out of fiat where possible, and use the coin with the current market value and the current network effect to learn on. Based on adoption and real world adding of value, in time a permaculture coin would be better placed to succeed. At this moment, there is no network effect for a permaculture coin in my view. To 'build your market', create that ever important 'network effect' in crypto coins as well as 'educate the market 'seems to be way above what permies generally would like to focus on.

Crypto coins is a whole new world. I love it, but have the basic background to understand it in fair depth.

It makes whole lot of sense to me to spend the time and effort in integrating Bitcoin into the permies culture than to create a new coin and create it such that permaculturists will adopt it.

For what it is worth, that is my input. Integrate some Bitcoin, learn on that, create coin for permaculture that will be accepted world wide instead of fiat. It is not an easy task so I would put the learning first. In any event, a permaculture coin would have to be valued against Bitcoin as the current crypto market leader and to buy anything outside of the permaculture world, one would have to buy Bitcoin as most probably a new permaculture coin will not be accepted early on.

Just adding something .. There are literally 100's of coins out there. Why at this early stage should the permaculture world get into such a new phase. We can just pick a coin, and work with that. But be aware, it is a real people's market and most of us have never experienced a market free of fiat type manipulation. It is a new world. Let us approach it cautiously. https://coinmarketcap.com/

 
Mike Brunt
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Xavier Hawk wrote:Hey y'all,

This is Xavier Hawk. I'm the lead on permacredits.com

I'm really glad you all are discussing it and have some cogent and intelligent questions.

I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about the project.

Some points:
1. The projects that get funded are decided upon by the whole community of credits holders. There is not a small select group of old white men deciding. You will be in an ecosystem of intelligent, disruptive, creative, and genuinely invested people like yourselves who want to see a healthier more same world. Everyone who holds credits up votes and down votes the projects into the funding queue.

2. All the decisions are made in a decentralized governance app that you become a member of when you buy your first credit.

3. Whomever it was that said the funds, and processes were built on the blockchain in smart contracts was correct. The funds are controlled by "trust less" contracts that execute themselves once certain criteria are met such as: "if the project gets a 2/3 majority up vote by the community, and they get three sponsors from the council then the wallet sends them the funds to begin operations"

4. The Bitcoin funds raised during the issuance window go directly into smart contract controlled wallets whereby upon completion of the parameters the wallets immediately and automatically disputes the funds to those projects.

5. This is the first truly decentralized currency issued and controlled by the collective coherence of the people involved. Unlike other currencies which have "trusted" authorities determining the inflation rate and more, this is truly a leveling of the playing field and constructing a system whereby the people involved collectively determine the rate of inflation and number of credits issued.

6. This is not not will it ever be a privately held institution. I have already turned down several very eager VC's each offering millions of dollars worth of start up capital who wanted shares, ownership and directorship seats. I have flat out refused and even cussed one of them out. I am setting this up to be run and managed by the community. I have even built in my exit as first user. You can't buy me. I will hold a position on the council like any other and my own projects will go through the Eco system like any other. It is important that no one has any trusted position here. The only way this works is if it is decentralized.

7. There are no contracts or obligations either. When a VC firm "invests" in a project they mostly insist on managerial positions and board seats. This is not the case here. We are utilizing an ancient wisdom tradition of gifting economies. We gift each project their funds. They are not obligated not contractually obligated to pay it back. They gift surplus back. This is open and recorded on the blockchain and each organizations contributions are displayed in the permacredits app. This everyone sees the gifts coming in. Iwe recommend 15-33% profits be gifted back in like you would too a waiter. Everyone will see the amounts and a precedent will be set and become the cultural norm within the community. If two Eco villages are of equal size and scope and one gifts 20K and the other gifts 100K people will notice and crowd source solutions to help Eco village 1 reach base line optimization.

I hope all this helps.

I am really excited about the possibilities that Permacredits have to jump start the world of permaculture and decentralized human self governance.

Never before in our known history has such a global solution to debt slavery and the war machine been so available and implement able.

What is really inspiring to me is the issuance of financial instruments and currency truly being in the hands of the people. To me permacredits are the path to human sovereignty and liberation...

Now people across the globe who truly want a just and sustainable world can energetically support that worlds growth and benefit from it directly.

Again, I am open to questions. It is important to me that people understand what we have here and see who I am and what values I operate with.

-X


Is this project still live do we know? (Permacredits that is).
 
Bring out your dead! Or a tiny ad:
FT Position Available: Affiliate Manager Who Loves Permaculture & Homesteading
https://permies.com/t/69742/FT-Position-Affiliate-Manager-Loves
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