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Tina Paxton

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since May 21, 2014
coastal southeast North Carolina
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Recent posts by Tina Paxton

Price researched people groups in various areas of the world where they were still eating a "native" diet. While the diets varied based on local foods available, there were common denominators: fermented foods, animal fats, and organ meats (except for one group that were largely vegetarian). He proposed that one key factor present in all the diets was a "Factor X" which later came to recognized as vitamin K2.

And, it was actually the rich who were less health than than the "poor" who were eating their native diet. European wealthy class ate white flour while the poor were eating whole grains (often fermented).

Anyway, rather than try to write a dissertation on Price's research, here is a presentation from Sally Fallon explaining the research:

3 years ago

Bauluo Ye wrote:One question I have about WAPF is why "round" faces and dental health are markers for overall health. Isn't this the bias of a dentist? To me the difference between generations isn't always so obvious as it is to Sally Fallon. I also wonder what happens when you go further back in time, before domestication of ruminants, before milk. Weren't people healthy before this point in time?




I wondered the same thing. Then, I watched a youtube video talking about the research that Price did and how the change in face shape comes about and affects dental health and from there overall health. It is actually amazing at the link between dental health and overall health and that is not just dentist bias, that is medical science. It is why doctors take mouth infections very seriously.

Historically, even Europeans had rounder faces than now. If you look at pictures from the 1800s and early 1900s you will see how faces were rounded as were bodies.
3 years ago

Bauluo Ye wrote:Thanks for your reply Tina Paxton. I haven't read The China Study, but it and Campbell keep showing up on my radar. He comes across as an honest and serious researcher, even drawing conclusions that went completely against his own beliefs. He's also human, so he could be wrong. But the study is based on data collected in China (+Taiwan in part 2) only. It's far from a trivial study. In fact it's regarded as the most comprehensive study of diet, lifestyle and disease ever conducted. I just haven't seen it tackled yet and I'd like to see a debate between this side and the "carnivore" side as a matter of a personal fact finding mission. I'll pick it up here: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?s=12996133217301e82190c161b13c35cc&p=1061045274&postcount=4



Well, actually, it draws from other epidemiological studies as well, but mostly the Asian region of the world. Scientifically, epidemiological studies are not considered something to draw conclusions from. They are meant to be a starting place -- a view of areas to study further. Campbell goes against that standard view and uses the epi studies as grounds for conclusions. His work is the "bible" for those who use it as a springboard for gurus wanting to claim scientific evidence for their nutritional doctrines. Whether Campbell is sincere or not -- they all *seem* sincere, the fact is his work is not viewed positively by the scientific community. A google search will give you plenty of reading of the whys of the rejection of his doctrines.

Bauluo Ye wrote:I'm also putting bits and pieces together from various sources and try to come up with something that seems right for me. Rule 1+2 are a no-brainer. Rule 3 is more tricky because it pretty much rules out paleo/keto/WPF (or are you talking about volume?). I'm also adding the fermented foods and making my first bone broth as we speak. My caution towards grains/gluten is very fresh, but I'm looking into it. And yes Jami McBride, Sally Fallon gave me the last push to finally start learning eating organ meat (especially liver). I haven't figured out where to get a non-toxic one and I'm not looking forward to the taste ether.



Yes, by volume plants should be the larger part of your daily intake. People tend to think that Paleo/Primal is all meat and no plants. That is not true.

For liver -- try rabbit liver! It is the liver-haters liver. It is also good to eat ruminant livers but can be more challenging taste wise. I still haven't been able to bring myself to eat calf liver. I know I should but I so hate the taste. I have hear of people cutting it into small pieces, freezing it, and swallowing the frozen pieces. OR, you can make a "meatloaf/meatball" using 2 parts muscle meat and 1 part calf liver - they say that covers up the taste. Not sure.

Bauluo Ye wrote:What I regard as healthy is to try to avoid cherry picking and confirmation bias. One way is to take a serious and honest look at what the critics have to say. Not the nay sayers, but the ones that have simply come to opposing conclusions. It should be part of science, but unfortunately they too are only human.

If you don't mind me asking, how's your health Tina? My ex suffered from anorexia so I know a little about how devastating eating disorders can be. And they are so damn hard to treat! If you come from a situation like that, I highly congratulate you for being so undogmatic! The main reason I bother looking into this food-stuff is that I keep reading it is a serious factor in what we've started calling mental health. It's a labyrinth, but I can't afford to ignore it. No health, no nothing.



I don't mind. My health is not great. I have several autoimmune conditions (which respond well to "no grains"). I have found it impossible to control my weight which baffles all logic and I'm getting quite desperate about it. And, to be honest, I am not as "undogmatic" as I sound. I still have disordered thinking about food. I am either 100% ON TARGET and DOGMATIC about the chosen plan or I am 100% OFF TARGET. There is NO such thing as "all things in moderation" or "one little cheat" for me. I got a masters in nutrition in hopes I'd find the answers to my issues and all would be well. But, knowledge does not necessarily translate to psychological change. Last year, I reached out for the first time for medical assistance. I worked with a naturopath for most of the year but the only improvements came from the paleo diet, not from the supplements and such recommended. And, the biggest issue I wanted help with -- my weight (I'm 300lbs) -- didn't get effective help. I sank once again into depression and discouragement about it and the disordered eating rose again.... sigh.... I'm fighting against the urge to just say f*it and eat myself to death and I'm again reaching out for help -- this time from my D.O. I've only seen him a couple times but I feel hopeful so this week I have an appointment with him to ask for help. If I don't get some help, I'm not sure what I will do. ...sorry that may be TMI but I don't want anything thinking I think I have all the answers.

As a scientific area of study, nutrition is in it's infancy. There are many more questions and theories than there are answers. And, no matter how scientific something seems...it may not pan out in personal experience. Ultimately, each person must do a N=1 study to see what works for you.
3 years ago

Jami McBride wrote:I agree Tina, and would add to your list - if eating meat (muscle) add organ meats, bone broths and/or good sourced gelatin for amino acid balance.
It's covered in WPF, but sometimes hard to add enough of. Now days we just don't eat the whole animal, and we don't get a lot of fermented foods - two good points to remember.



Yes! Thanks for adding that! Definitely need to eat more organ meats than muscle meats.
3 years ago

Bauluo Ye wrote:@ Tina Paxton
But what about the China Study? The conclusions are the opposite.

A title that drew my attention lately is "Diet Cults: The Surprising Fallacy at the Core of Nutrition Fads and a Guide to Healthy Eating for the Rest of Us". I tells me I'm not the only one noticing a certain nutri-religiousity. At the moment I have most sympathy for WAP, but it's more based on a hunch than on anything else. I can't become the expert I have to be, in order to make real sense of it all. Anyway, people getting out of the grips of agro-industry and marketeers is a development I highly enjoy. It resonates with a lot of stuff many permies hold dear to their hearts.



Have you read "The China Study"? I got through about half of it. I read it while eating a 100% raw vegan diet. I tried the "less than 10% protein" idea and it caused me medical problems that had my MD begging me to eat more protein. The major problem with the basis of The China Study is he is basing his theories on epidemiological studies looking at multiple countries which sounds like it would balance out any "confounding factors". But, alas, it does not. There are just way too many confounding factors and adding in more countries just adds more confounding factors. Add to that the fact that there are many other studies that conflict with Dr. Campbell's theories.

Nutri-religiousity is a good way to explain it. There are diet gurus out there for an amazing range of diet theories. And, the followers are devout and intense. Some of the more extreme diet theories are good places for people with disordered eating to hide behind "eating healthy". Being a person who has battled disordered eating for 42 years, I recognize the signs in others when I see it. And, I worry about myself and my own tendencies.

In one of Pollan's books, he gives 3 simple rules for eating which if we could follow them, would greatly simply what has become a very difficult area of our lives. His rules are:

1. Eat real food.
2. Not so much of it.
3. Mostly plants.

Add to that the WAPF's rule on eating fermented foods at each meal...

And, Paleo's cautions against grains (especially if you have inflammatory or autoimmune issues)...

And, you could end up with a dietary plan without the fanaticism of the guru followers...
3 years ago
I want to learn about the types of edible/medicinal mushrooms and how to grow them for market. I'd like to know your recommendations for books for both beginner and intermediate level.
3 years ago
I am developing a stand of bush willow for the rabbits. I have seeded my lawn with various grasses and clovers for rabbits, chickens, and ducks. I have planted mulberries for coppicing for the rabbits. I'm also adding more and more roses both because they please my elderly momma and because they are rabbit crack.... when I finally get comfrey going, that is another plant that will be part of the forage for the animals... most but not all that I grow (whether for human consumption or not) tends to have a livestock forage feature.
3 years ago
Yeah, it was hard to decide....then I considered getting a hatchery choice mix....decided against that...and finally after several changes, went with the Welsh Harlequins. Too many choices sometimes!

Come June, I'm going to be in duckling overload though -- I've got 2 muscovies setting on nests and another starting one...oh, yeah....it's going to be a busy summer!
3 years ago
To update: I placed my order today with Metzer Farms. I started to go with the hybrid 300...had them in my cart...then decided to get Welsh Harlequins instead. So, first week of June I will receive a box of 15 female WH ducklings.
3 years ago

BeeDee marshall wrote:
We actually feed no commercial pelleted food and haven't for 2 years. We raise 2 does and 1 (sometimes 2) bucks as well as many kits on sprouted barley, a mineral wheel for each rabbit (or for a cage full of kits), hay (all kinds), dandelion and other wild greens such as clover, as well as comfrey in the spring, summer and fall and small branches/sprouts from trees in the winter. They are sleek, healthy and happy. I got the basis for my setup from http://fmicrofarm.com/diyprojects/ which is pretty clear. I have been able to grow the spouted barley through our long dark winter, so the rabbits get greens in the winter as well. I also do sprouted oats for the does when they are pregnant and nursing. Helps with milk production. It may be too work intensive for some permies, but it is worth it to me to know what is going in their bodies before it goes in ours. If anyone is interested, I will give some tips and tricks I have learned (and am still learning) about this method of feeding rabbits.



Yes, I would be interested in your tips and tricks from your experience. I don't have access to barley but can get wheat and oats. I tried the sprouting but had issues with mold. Currently, I'm gathering supplemental grasses and weeds from the yard for the rabbits but still have pellets as the base which is something I've tried to get away from for several years now. All pointers are much appreciated.
3 years ago