Sarah Milcetic

We have had Blue Slate turkeys for about 5 years. Ours free range/forage for themselves (with guardian dog protection) but they do eat feed in the winter and sometimes come when we feed the chickens. We have butchered some of their offspring and they are very slow growing. Maybe because of the way we raise them. The hens were only 5 pounds at 6 months and the tom around 14.

Hopefully I'm posting this in the right place! This month I launched a new website in an attempt to carry on the work of one of my late mentors. She taught so many breeders about natural rearing and as I've continued to try to pass on what I've learned I've realized that many people are looking for holistically raised animals for their homesteads and having trouble finding them.

My goal is to connect holistic breeders and buyers of any animals suited to the homestead. So far the breeders are all in the USA but the original organization my mentor ran was global!

I also added an area for holistic animal service providers to join (for eg animal naturopath, holistic veterinarian, homeopath, massage therapist, educator, groomer, trainer, handler, boarding facility or transport provider)

If this interests you at all the website is holistichomesteaders.com

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:Yes, but it depends on the mother.  I've seen mothers that were DONE with their puppies at six weeks old, and one that happily kept nursing them well past 8 weeks, the ones she still had with her.  Maggie is a good mom, I just don't know if she's going to do what's typical or not, LOL!

The earliest ours have weaned pups without us helping move things along was 14 weeks. I thought 8 was a good minimum. 🤷‍♀️

I've been going through some emails from a few years ago and found one that Dr. Jeannie Thomason had emailed to me on CHD. She said that she believed it to be environmental for the most part. It reminded me that I read somewhere else that the material used in the whelping area can effect a pup's hip development, much like a too slick surface in an incubator can be a cause of splayed leg in chicks.

John Weiland wrote: Reminds me of an interesting story and observations from the Voyager's Wolf Project in northern Minnesota where wolves grazing blueberry stands was caught on camera...

Interesting! One of our dogs does this with wineberries in our hedgerow here.

Carla Burke wrote:He says he wishes we could afford to feed her the way we feed mine - I think we'd break even, for lack of typical vet bills, as she ages - with overall health better, my way.

I’m with you on this too!! We used to have huge vet bills when we cared for our cats the way the vets told us too and most of them died of cancer. Our current cat is 14 and still as spry as a kitten and no health concerns at all. We’ve had no health issues with any of our dogs either!

Thank you so much for the additional info Carla! Where did you get certified if you’re willing to share?

We too find that certain plants are helpful for our dogs. Would you agree that in general it makes sense to use them as needed for specific effects?

We gave our dogs more fruit/veg early on in their daily meals but shifted away from it other than specific reasons like you mentioned - and we don’t feed fruit at the same time as meat.

It reminds me of how I noticed our dogs were interested in chewing on walnut hulls at a certain time of year that seemed to match up with when their bodies would need that medicine!

I also read the article to mean that there are many factors that could play a role, but I also think for all our animals (and ourselves), if we're not starting with the basis of the nutrition our bodies need it's going to make the job much harder if not impossible for the body to stay well long term as the body will pull whatever reserves it has and then things begin to fail when the reserves run out.

My understanding is that canines are not omnivores, but opportunistic carnivores! Just because they will eat something doesn't mean it's good for them (just like our kids - some would rather eat only fruit all day long, but we know that's not good for them).

Cooked food is also not good for dogs long term. It lacks the enzymes needed to digest the food and again their bodies rob enzymes which leads to depletion over time. I believe this is one of the causes of pancreatitis.

I'm no expert but I'm trying to learn as much as I can. There are many great teachers on feeding a species appropriate raw diet for dogs. One of my favorites is Natural Rearing - Breeding and Raising Dogs The Way Nature Intended by Dr. Jeannie Thomason. Another book that was recently recommended to me that I'm going to read next is Raw and Thriving by Kristin Clark. I've also read Juliette de Levy's book but mostly use it for an herbal reference.

Getting it into the diet is a great question. Many food sources of C aren’t digestible to a carnivore. Dr. Wendell used ascorbates for better absorption.

This is from another article discussing that:

Vitamin C Dosage for Dogs

The average dog normally produces about 18 milligrams of vitamin C per pound of body weight per day. Therefore, for a dog that is free of clinically significant symptoms but is experiencing unusual stress, supplementation with about that much C per day appears be a conservative maintenance dosage. (About 500 milligrams for a 28-lb. dog daily.) To increase absorption, veterinarians recommend splitting the total daily dosage into several feedings during the day.

However, many holistic veterinarians routinely suggest maintenance doses that are three to four times that amount. They explain that modern, domestic dogs need more vitamin C than the theoretical “natural” dog, since their bodies must deal with so many challenges: stress, pollution, chemicals and pesticides, and poor diets, to name a few.

Too much vitamin C, especially if given in one dose, will cause diarrhea in dogs. What amount is too much varies from dog to dog, so, when administering the maximum amount of C for a therapeutic (not just maintenance) dose, many veterinarians will suggest that you increase the dose in 100-500 milligram-per-day increments until the dog develops diarrhea, then reduce his daily dose to the previous day’s dose. (This is often referred to as dosing to “bowel tolerance.”)

There’s also a lot more info in that article. Here’s the link: https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/food/benefits-of-vitamin-c-to-your-dog/

Thekla McDaniels wrote: I would enjoy sharing in the discussion if there’s a thread or organization somewhere, someone can direct me to.  And I don’t want to take this thread astray!

I was thinking the same thing when I brought it up. I started a new topic here: https://permies.com/t/209143/Hip-dysplasia-LGDs

Let's discuss hip dysplasia in our giant breeds!

To kick it off, how about a brief article from Dr. Wendell O. Belfield:


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I am editing to remove the article because the original link is no longer visible on the internet to reference and give proper credit (at least that I can find right now). I have it saved in my personal materials from the author. Sorry about that! 😢