David Marks

Anne Miller wrote:I would suggest trying several options that you mentioned to see what you like best.

I infuse in straight vodka with nothing added or make a tea with boiling water.

Different methods are used for different herbs.

Some may say my methods are the way though This works for me.

Thank you!

I have tinctures for all the herbs I take.   Tea's are great! But not suitable for working people to carry jugs of all the tea's you want to make and run to the bathroom all the time.

My concern is if I dilute the vinegar with water that has decoded herb, it won't stay very long.  I love experimenting but prices of herbs and preparation materials are going up like everything else.

Couple of years ago, I made Fire Cider.  one with vinegar.  one with vodka.  No comparison in effectiveness.  Booze wins.  So trying to hack the system and get stronger vinegar extracts.

Don't really need horse radish.  Too many good anti-viral herbs with better profiles.  

I want to make some Vinegar herbal extracts.   Instead of just macerating the herb in organic apple cider vinegar.  Is there a precedence for making a strong infusion with  heated spring water for a couple of hours and then adding vinegar and honey for preservative after the active ingredients of the herb have been infused instead of infusing it just with vinegar which I don't think removes all the ingredients because the herb is never heated?  Seems more like an extended cold infusion with a liquid that doesn't extract all the waters, and oils in the plant.  

I can't seem to find such a recipe for such a process.  

I want to be able to grap a bottle from the fridge and leisurely drink without a strong hit of 195 proof vodka.   Plus if you take different herbs, that's a lot of booze in the morning even if you dilute in water.  I'm ok with a lower quality infusion that I can drink a greater quantity of leisurely especially for herbs like Nettle, Skullcap, Oatstraw, maybe Chamomile etc...

For antibiotic and virals, I'm fine with taking tinctures.  Dose it up.  But for herbs that build over time, maybe detoxify or are a nervine, I'd prefer to sip through out the day as a beverage.  Or be able to whip out for my wife is she has menses.  

My second option to try is what Stephen Buhner called a herbal glycerite/honey.   He used 10% 195 proof vodka, 60% water and 30% honey or glycerine.   And that would work for let's say a stomach ache, head ache, cold etc... Apply to a situation.  

I'm looking to make a potion for restorative herbs that aren't necessarily used for a "crisis" condition that I can drink through out the day without making tea/hot decoctions all day which generally you have to prepare the evening before and allow the herb to sit in the water for max potency.   It's cool and it's a great regiment but time......  

I need the stuff handy to consumer on the run that has been prepared in advanced that will last at least a few weeks.  

Dear Angela,
Thank you so much for clarifying those points.  Good to know I can make use of this batch of Muellin without concern.   Maybe I'll wait 4 weeks for this batch to soak and I'll add a new batch with some water to get a higher potency and add some water while I'm at it.

Not totally grinding the herb to a powder resonates with me.  I think that's the route I'm going to go for now on.  

Many thanks for some wonderful, informative, thoughtful replies.  

It's very much appreciated.    

David

Sharol Tilgner wrote:Hi David,

When I mentioned putting the plant through the liquid many times, I am talking about pressing out the menstruum (the liquid that the Mullein was soaking in) and putting more Mullein (new fresh Mullein) back into the menstruum again. If you are making a tincture to a specific strength, it is possible you may have to do this many times to get to that specified strength. When a person uses the simple folk method of making a tincture, they usually do not do this and the end product is not as strong. However, they may not care. The more Mullein you put through the menstruum the stronger the end product will be. However, this takes time and more effort. At some point you reach a saturation level in them menstruum and adding more herb will not make it stronger as it will just cause a lot of settling out of the plant material.

Dear Sharol,
Thank you so much for taking the time to clarify your directions.  I understand now.  I totally never heard of this and have been struggling with getting a good tincture with Muellin and Marshmallow for a couple of years now and gave up.   With your directions, I can give it another go.  Maybe I'll try both ways and that way I have a batch ready and a stronger batch off in the future.  

I see I chose a good time to ask my question as I see  you are a guest of the board  and now I can acquainted with your work having purchased both of your books.  

If you have a chance, I would love to hear your thoughts on the strength of alcohol for Muellin or just in general.   And I look forward to reading your entire section on tinctures as well as all the other material in your books.  
Again Many Thanks,
Kind Regards,
David

Wow!!  That’s an amazing and unexpected detailed response.   Thank you for writing all this.  No, it's not too much information.  Doesn't seem alot of people have experience with this herb.  

I am using dry herbs.   Yes, I am macerating them.

Sharol Tilgner wrote:

Mullein is a light fluffy plant as you know so, to make a 1:2 of fresh or dry plant means you will be putting that plant through the menstruum (liquid) many times. About 5-7 I would guess if dry. (I have the data on a disc in storage, but it is not handy to me currently, so this is from memory.)

I don’t understand this what this means to "put the plant through the liquid many times" .  I never heard of it could you please explain.  Am I taking the herb out and putting it back in ?

Dehydrating the herb is what is written on Mountain Rose Website.  I quote their website on using high proof alcohol

85% - 95% (190 proof grain alcohol)
• Good for dissolving gums and resins - but not necessary for most plant material.  
• Extracts the aromatics and essential oils bound in a plant that do not dissipate easily.
• The alcohol strength can produce a tincture that is not easy to take and will also dehydrate the herbs. Stronger is not always better.  

I would put a small amount, say about 20% at the most of the Mullein herb into the jar and 80% volume of your alcohol (or other liquid used). Let it sit over night and see the next day if you can add more herb or not. A lot of the alcohol will be absorbed into the herb, and with Mullein that may be all you can add.

Well, I kind of reversed it but I'll get it right the next time.  I filled the jar than 1/2 way.   My thinking was that it is so fluffy that there is not much herb but it takes alot of of space so I put more herb in to get a decent dosage and then filled it with the vodka..   Next day I was able to still put more herb in the jar.   So yes, I was eyeballing it.  

Thanks for the advice on grinding the herb(s).  Never heard of the blending.  There seems to be disagreement.  Some say not grinding the herb is more effective.   But I like the idea of grinding the herb in a blender with the liquid.  

I am going to buy your book.  NOW!  And go visit your websites.    

What about the vodka I bought.  Devil Springs 160 proof.  Michael Moore calls for 50-60% alcohol for Mueillin dry or herb.  1:5 for dry herb.   1:2 fresh herb.    Is this too strong?   Should I use a 100 proof vodka?  Or should I add water if I use the Devil Springs to lower the alcohol content?  

All my herbs are going to be dry.  From either mountain rose or starwest botanicals.   Mullein, Marshmallow,  Burdock, Comfrey root and leaves, Pleurisy root, I have some American Ginseng I want to tincture etc… Mostly roots and leaves, no guns or resins.  

And if I may ask you one more question.  I want to make combination tinctures based combinations and ratio’s of other peoples recipes.   Does it make a difference if I combine the herbs and macerate them together in proper ratio or can I mix them later in the proper ratio?

Thank you so much !!!

Buying your book NOW!

Regards,
David

I haven't made my own tinctures in awhile and I quickly put a batch of dried Muellin Leaves, filled it somewhere around 3/4's of the bottle (because the herb is so light and fluffly) and filled the bottle with Devil Springs Vodka 160 proof vodka.  

I thought I'd better research it better next time and pull out my herb books and Michael Moores Material Medica.   He recommends 1:2, 50-60% alcohol.

I just eye balled the ratio and I used a much stronger proof vodka.  

I read that too strong could dehydrate the herb.  I don't know what that means?  Don't you want to dehyrdrate the leaf and pull out all the oils and water from the plant?  

_____________________

Anyway, did I just waste a batch of herbs and a 1/2 bottle of vodka? Or will this batch be useable?  

Could somebody recommend an all purpose grinder for herbs like Muellin and hard roots like Comfrey, and Burdock?  The small coffee grinders are useless?  Do I even need to grind the Muellin?  so much surface area exposed and it's a soft plant.

If it were only so easy to take an herbal potion to clear bockages that inhibit the kundalini. I can tell ya that the Saints and guru's who have done this didn't use herbs. You can use plant medicine in the form of flower essences to start clearing those blockages but that is a science well beyond finding the right herbs and flower essences alone is not going to do the trick. It is through your spiritual discipline that you begin to rid yourself of those blocks in the channels that prevent your kundalini from rising.

You do not want to force your kundalini to rise. Those who have attempted these type of shortcuts find themselves permanently out of balance and with significant health dangers.

Thank you John and Leila for both of your very well informed replies.

I agree with you Leila wholeheartedly about the benefit of working with one herb at a time to become familiar with it's individual properties, how it effects you, it's personality etc... I have and continue to work that way to gain an appreciation. Wildcrafting is not an option for a city boy other than foraging in the park but in the right circumstances, I indeed would have the same interest. However, I would add that this type of healing program is a very very intense sort of endeavor. Not for the meek. And I've done something like this before except the herbs were prepared for me addressing multiple issues. Clearing candida, parasites, digestion, liver etc.... It is a life altering experience and the one thing you cannot do on such a program once you get started is deviated from proven protocols because once you enter into what is known as a healing crisis, you hope that the practioner brings with them many years of experience that they've prepared something that is tried and proven. And believe me, you won't be in the garden too much so everything has to be prepared. Experimentation is great but not during detox because you do not have the resources but over time certainly experimentation is a good thing.

The other observation that Stephen Buhner makes is that he was also a advocate of using two or three herbs in his combinations until he got older and found that as the body deterioates, it became necessary to use more synergistic herbs. And this is the entire philosophy of TCM where an entire combination has one personality. 1000's of years of experimenting, they recognized that each person was different and the formula's, especially tonifying herbs, require assistance in order to maximize the effect of the major herbs. Such herbs as licorice are never used alone.

And as I prepare for flu and cold season, I know that I want sufficient number of immune supporting herbs to do the trick ASAP and keep my immune system humming.

As John mentioned, precipitating can be an issue as it is also mentioned by Buhner. He adds glycerine so which means that if I am going to add either more alcohol or glycerin I can't fill the jar to the top as many people do. I have to go back to read his comments on it because he mentions it's a little addressed issue among herbalist. I guess I am satisfied that the science works for making an herbal combination. But still not sure it is optimal. But than again I believe Chinese might have been doing it this way for thousands of years. I've seen their brews in herb stores.

I might just do it two ways and experiment even if it is more expensive because there is no way I'm going to use rubbing alcohol as a menstruum.

So it looks like some experimentation will be in order.

Hi Folks,

I am obviously just registered for this forum as I've been looking for a forum of experienced herbalist and reading through the forum looks like some knowledgeable people. Sorry to right out of the box just throw up three questions but I come bearing gifts too. I like contributing as much as I receive which seems rare on forums. But need to get some questions off my chest so I can start making my own potions instead of continual buying other people's stuff. I've been using medicinal herbs for many years so my knowledge of the medicinal properties of herbs far exceeds my experience in making my own.

I ran across this guy named Dr. Robert Morse. He specializes in detoxification. I've been reading and stuyding his book and video's. He has a combination detox diet, mostly fruit, vegetables and fasting and herbal combinations that he sells but also gives away the recipes so nothing proprietary here. I like that he is generous with information. So I purchased ALOT of these herbs ready to start making tinctures but also have been reading all the other books especially love STephen Buhners books. An enlightened chap.

I can find no basis for the method that Dr. Morse and his students use of making combination tinctures in the same jar. And now I've read, on this forum too, that different herbs have different content of water and thus each herb requires a different ratio of alcohol. So it seems combining all the herbs in one bottle is a less effective way of making combination tinctures. Buhner makes them separately and then combines the tinctures into one bottle after he has made each individual tincture. So now I have tons of herbs trying to figure out which path I want to go.

I don't want to make lousy tinctures. I can buy those in the healthfood store. But it means I gotta buy a boat load of booze and more mason jars and some graduated cylinders to mix the tinctures together. Making your own is getting expensive and very time consuming BUT I'm going to do it if I have to.

Anybody have any experience making combination tinctures as indicated below? All in one jar. Or would you just clear a closet, and make individual tinctures and mix them later?



Formula "recipes" for Blood, Bones, Brain & Nervous I & II, Heal All Tea, Immune, Kidney & Bladder I & II, Lower Circ., Lungs II, Lymphy Nodes I & II, Lymphatic System I, II & IV, Skin, Stomach & Bowels 1 & 3 and Upper Circulation

Using the ratios below is how I was taught to follow a list of ingredients.� I have made and taken (well, some were my husband's so I didn't take those) all of the 'recipes' below.
�
These are ratios.� So for example on the recipe below for BLOOD = 333 22 1� That means is you're making a "triple recipe", then multiply everything by 3.
�
If you want to triple the recipe below, this is how you'd do it:3x3 = 9 grams red clover, 9g burdock root, 9g white oak bark.� Then 2x3=6g plantain herb, 6g yellow dock.� 1x3=3g prickly ash bark.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
�
�
Blood
�
4� Red Clover Herb & Flowers (Trifolium pratense) 48 gr
�
3 �Burdock Root (Arctium lappa) 36 gr
3 �White Oak Bark (Quercus alba) 36 gr
�
2� Plantain Herb (Plantago lanceolata) 24 gr
2 �Yellow Dock Root (Rumex spp.) 24 gr
�
1� Prickly Ash Bark (Zanthoxylum clava-herculis) 12 gr
�
=================================
�
Bones
�
5 �Kelp (Nereocystis luetkeana) 53 gr
�
4� Horsetail Grass (Equisetum arvense) 42 gr
�
3 �Comfrey Leaf (Symphytum officinalis) 32 gr
�
�
2 �Alfalfa Lea(Medicago sativa) 21 gr
2 �White Oak Bark (Quercus alba) 21 gr
�
1�� Prickly Ash Bark (Zanthoxylum clava-herculis) 11 gr
�
=====================================
�
Brain & Nervous System I
�
4� Ginkgo Leaf (Ginkgo biloba) 36 gr
�
4 �Gotu Kola Herb (Centella asiatica) 36 gr
4 �Scullcap Herb (Scutellaria lateriflora)�36 gr� �����������
3 �Rosemary Leaf (Rosmarinus officinalis)�27 gr�������
�
2� Eleuthero Root (Eleutherococcus sent.) 18 gr
2 �Schisandra Berry (Schisandra chinensis)�18 gr�����
1 Prickly Ash Bark (Zanthoxylum clava-herculis)�9 gr��
�
===================================�
�
Heal All Tea
5 White Oak Bark (Quercus alba) 50 gr
4 Plaintain Herb (Plantago spp.) 40 gr
3 Comfrey Root & Leaf (Symphytum offinalis) 30 gr
�
2 Black Walnut Hulls (Juglans nigra) 20 gr
2 Chaparral Herb (Larrea tridentate) 20 gr
�
1 Burdock Root (Arctium Lappa) 10 gr
1 Marshmallow Root 10 gr
�
=================================
�
Immune
�
4 Echinacea Angustifolia Root Echinacea angustifolia) 36 gr
�
�
3 Astragalus Root (Astragalus membranaceus) 27 gr
3 Pau d'Arco Bark (Tabebuia impetiginosa) 27 gr
�
�
2 Cat's Claw Bark (Uncaria tomentosa) 18 gr
2 Maitake Mushroom (Grifolia frondosa) 18 gr
2 Reishi Mushroom (Ganoderma lucidum) 18 gr
2 Shiitake Mushroom (Lentinus edodes) 18 gr
�
�
1 Eleuthero Root (Eleutherococcus senticosus) 9 gr
1 Schisandra Berries (Schisandra chinensis) 9 gr
�
=====================================
�
Kidney & Bladder 1
�
5 �Dandelion Leaf (Taraxacum spp.)�40 gr
�
4 �Cornsilk (Zea mays)�32 gr
4� Juniper Berries (Juniperus communis)�32 gr
3 �Goldenrod Herb (Solidago canadensis)�24 gr
�
2 �Couch Grass Root (Agropyron repens) 16�gr
2 �Parsley Leaf Petroselinum crispum) 16 gr
�
�
1 �Horsetail Herb (Equisetum arvense)�10 gr
1 �Nettle Herb (Urtica dioica)�10 gr
�
===================================
�
Kidney & Bladder II�
�
�
4� �Dandelion Leaf (Taraxacum officinale)�40 gr��������������
4� �Plantain Leaf (Plantago lanceolata)�40 gr
3� �Gravel Root (Eupatorium purpureum)�30 gr
2�� Cornsilk (Zea mays)�20 gr
2� �Parsley Root & Leaf (Petroselinum crispum)�20 gr
2� �Uva Ursi (Arctostaphylos uva-ursi)�20 gr
1�� Nettles (Urtica dioica)�10 gr
�
=================================
�
Lower Circulation
�
�
5� Butchers Broom Root (Ruscus aculeatus) 32 gr
5� Hawthorn Berry (Crataegus spp.) 32 gr
5� Horse Chestnut (Aesculus hippocastanum) 32 gr
4� Bilberry Leaf (Vaccinium myrtillus) 26 gr
�
3� Artichoke Leaf (Cynara scolymus) 20 gr
3� White Oak Bark (Quercus alba) 20 gr
2� Prickly Ash Bark (Zanthoxylum clava-herculis) 10 gr
1� Cayenne Pepper Fruit (Capsicum annum) (40,000 HU max.) 8 gr
�
=====================================
�
Lungs II
�
�
4 Mullein 40 gr
�
�
3 Fenugreek Seed 28 gr
3 Marshmallow Root Powder 28 gr
3 Slippery Elm Bark Powder 28 gr
�
2 Chickweed 20 gr
�
�
1 Bayberry Bark 9 gr
1 Comfrey Leaf 9 gr
1 Horehound 9 gr
1 Yerba Santa Leaf 9 gr
�
==================================
�
Lymph Nodes I
�
�
4 Echinacea Angustifolia Root Echinacea angustifolia) 42 gr
4 Red Clover Herb (Trifolium pratense) 42 gr
3� Poke Root (Phytolacca americana) 32 gr
�
2� Blue Violet Leaf (Viola odorata) 21 gr
2 �Plaintain Herb (Plantago ovato) 21 gr
�
1 Burdock Root (Arctium lappa) 11 gr
1 Periwinkle Herb (Vinca major) 11 gr
�
====================================
�
LYMPH NODES II
�
�
3� Blood Root (Sanguinaria canadensis)�38 gr
3� Plaintain Herb (Plantago ovata)�38 gr
3� Poke Root (Phytolacca americana)�38 gr
2� Chaparral Herb (Artemisia absinthium)�26 gr
2� Wormwood Herb (Artemisia absinthium) 26 gr
1� Burdock Root (Arctium lappa) 14 gr
�
====================================
�
Lymphatic System 1
�
�
4� Chaparral Leaf (Larrea tridentata) 36 gr
4 �Poke Root (Phytolacca americana) 36 gr
3 �Plaintain Herb (Plantago spp.) 27 gr
2 �Cleavers Herb (Galium aparine) 18 gr
�
2 �Echinacea Angustifolia Root (Echinacea angutifolia) 18 gr
2� Red Root (Ceanothus americanus) 18 gr
2 �White Oak Bark (Quercus alba) 18 gr
1 �Prickly Ash Bark (Zanthoxylum clava-herculis) 9 gr
�
===================================
�
LYMPHATIC II
�
5� Graviola (Annona Muricata)� Sour Sop 34 gr
5� Suma Root (Pfaffia paniculata)�34 gr
4� Poke Root (Phytolacca americana)�28 gr
3� Cats Claw Bark (Unicaria tomentosa) 21 gr
3� Periwinkle Herb (Vinca major)�21 gr
�
3� Red Clover Herb (Trifolium pratense)�21 gr
2� Cleavers Herb (Galium aparine)�14 gr
1� Blood Root (Sanguinaria canadensis) 7 gr
�
==================================
�
Lymphatic System IV
�
4 Bayberry Bark 29 gr
4 Mullein 29 gr
4 Red Clover 29 gr
�
�
3 Marshmallow 22 gr
3 White Oak Bark 22 gr
�
�
2 Plantain 14 gr
2 White Pond Lily 14 gr
�
1 Burdock Root 7 gr
1 �Blue Flag 7 gr
1 �Bistort Rhizome 7 gr
�
===================================
�
Skin
�
5 Oregon Grape Root (Mahonia aquifolium) 53 gr
4 Jamaican Sarsaparilla (Smilax ornata) 42 gr
3 Burdock Root (Arctium lappa) 32 gr
�
2 Bayberry Root Bark (Myrica cerifera) 21 gr
2 White Oak BArk (Quercus alba) 21 gr
1 Prickly Ash Bark (Zanthoxylum clava-herculis) 11 gr
�
====================================
�
Stomach & Bowel #1
�
Slippery Elm Bark Powder � 5mg
�
Marshmallow Root Powder � 4mg
Wild Yam Root � 4mg
�
Mullein Leaf � 3mg� (doesn�t grind well)
�
Chickweed Herb � 2mg
Gentian Root � 2mg
Plantain Leaf � 2mg
�
Fennel Seed � 1mg
�
====================================
�
Stomach and Bowels #3
�
5 Cascara Sagrada Bark (Rhamnus purshiana) 42 gr
�
4 Cape Aloe (get powder) (Aloe ferox) 33 gr
4 Slippery Elm Bark (Powder) (Ulmus fulva) 33 gr
3 Gentian Root (Gentiana lutea) 24 gr
�
2 Wild Yam Root (Dioscorea spp.) 16 gr
2 Plantain Leaf (Plantago spp.) 16 gr
�
1 Fennel Seed (Feoniculum vulgare) 8 gr
1 Ginger Root (Zingiber officinale) 8 gr
�
====================================
�
UPPER� CIRCULATION
�
5� Ginkgo Leaf (Ginkgo biloba) 32 gr
4� Butcher's Broom Root (Ruscus aculeatus) 27 gr
4� Gotu Kola Herb (Centella asiatica 27 gr
4� Rosemary Leaf (Rosmarinus officinalis 27 gr
3� Bilberry Leaf (Vaccinium myrtillus) 20 gr
3� Hawthorn Berry (Crataegus spp.) 20 gr
2� Eleuthero Root (Eleutherococcus sent.) 13 gr
1� Bayberry Root Bark (Myrica cerifera 7 gr
1� Cayenne Pepper Fruit (Capsicum annum) (40,000 HU max.) 7 gr


Use at least 100 proof grain alcohol with no additives, flavors, colorings etc. (everclear, vodka, smirnoff etc) and grind the herbs to a powder to get a 1:4 ratio. 1 gram of herb to 4 ml of alcohol. These ratios equal out to 180 grams of herb. So 180 grams of herb times 4 ml of alcohol is 720 ml. Use a 32 oz mason jar. Make sure you shake them up everyday and keep them in the dark. Keep them in a dark area away from the light. Tincture will be ready in 30 days or you can wait 45 if you can stand it!

Order all your herbs as leaf type unless otherwise noted.
You can use a coffee grinder to grind them.


Start your tinctures on the new moon and decant (strain them) 45 days later on the full moon. Use a potato ricer to get the most alcohol out of the herbs. Then use a paint strainer funnel to get any remaining herb out of the alcohol. Store you finished tincture in an amber or brown bottle. You will get about 16 oz ( 2 cups) of tincture from the original 32 oz jar.