Scott Weinberg

Cristobal Cristo wrote:Scott,

This is the quality people expect when arranging masonry heater building in a masonry heater country. The workmanship would be around $5k. Batchbox type mass heaters would be cheaper to build, around 3-4k.

 A excellent trade to be in,   hope there is a ample supply of apprentice coming along.    it is good to see.

Cristobal Cristo wrote:The brick at 6:06:41 is certainly a slice of a firebrick tile. I purchased recently two of these at PTI in California for $30 a piece. Super Duty, dimension 18x18x2.5", so from one tile you could cut seven 18" long soaps or eight if the blade was extremely thin (continuous rim type for tiles).

Excellent source, I will be in the market for a few pieces..   https://ptithermal.com/    Thank you sir.

Cristobal Cristo wrote:He mostly builds in Poland, so the firebricks have the same dimensions as in USA. The regular construction brick in many European countries is nominal 250x120x65 mm.
Here is his website:

Kronis.pl

If you hover over "REALIZACJE" link you may access galleries of 27 various builds.

I would love to find the fire bricks used at 5:34:10  and then brick 1 and 2 used at 6:06:41  priced affordably in the USA--  same width, same height but nearly twice as long as standard fire brick.

It does look like he does outstanding work,   I wonder what he would get in America, to build such a stove? Perhaps a few $100?+ Material?  Maybe not!

laisen lee wrote:Hello, if anyone is interested, they can act as an agent to sell my rocket stove in Europe or the United States. I believe this can help promote and popularize my rocket stove

With your intention to entertain an agent, --How did your testo testing come out? I must have missed this as it was talked about for Europe standards to pass a level of performance?

Julian Adam wrote:
As far as I can tell it is a Kuznetsov stove design with the corresponding 'dry seam'. (a lot) more complex to build over a batch box rocket with hollow bell, and I believe Peter did some testing to show that the efficiencies are not as high as a BBR.
You can find the Kuznetsov designs online as well. They use russian brick sizes though, which I believe is a problem.

Fully agree with Julian here, in that this is complex vs any of the latest published designs, such as the shorty and batch box single bell designs.  All of which have very similar final profiles.

If you were to base your final design based on looks, you might as well bring in the cost factor to the equation.

While anything can be learned, the fellow in the video, is not new to brick laying.  So if  you feel you cannot do what he is doing in a timely manner, that would be a strike against this.  Again it can be learned, but perhaps not as your first project with brick laying.

Having a capable wet saw is a great help for almost all masonry stoves, it is almost imperative for the one in the video, again with the skill of knowing what/how it can be done.  You can get by without on simpler designs with good planning.

And lastly, as Julian pointed out, if you cannot source the required brick size ( and the one in the video, certainly uses quite a few non standard brick sizes) you tend to make compromises in the design, and like most things, one change leads to several more changes, which in turn can lead to still more.

All of this is NOT TO SAY,that this isn't a great stove, it is simply saying, that if you spend $10 to save $3  I can think of better investments.

COST-
Now I will add my spiel on cost,   If you know exactly what you need for brick count and size, And if your patient, using facebook market place, inventory sell offs of lumber yards, home remodels free be's, Even large brick buildings being torn down.  The major portion of your stove can be sourced.   Remember, if you need, 300 bricks, but find a pallet of 500 for $0.10 a brick, that is still only $50.00  nothing says you have to use the last 200.    Utilization of many different colored bricks is no problem, as a tile facade can be put in place in a few hours for a consistent look that is top notch. ( a thin second skin on your bell)    All of this is to reverse the cost factor,  spend $3.00 and save $10.00

Best of success!

What a fantastic opportunity to pick  your house design AND stove design, at the same time.  Something very few get to do.   I would like to say, that I think you would love the effects of Radiant heat (stove in living area)  vs transferred heat if the stove is in the basement.   I have the latter,  I have a 7" stove that absolutely works as planned but again it is in the basement.  I can heat the basement very well, and transfer this heat up through open registers and the like, but it is just not the same.

Of course the plus of in the basement, is Keeping a winter supply of wood there (before winter)

The comment about perhaps two stoves, I think is a good one. Such fun it would be.

Because of what my grandfather thought would be right ( midwestern large square house)  my stove would struggle to heat the entire house, not because of the stove design, but because of the heat transfer ability from basement to living space. There is so much mass in the basement already. Of course with a new structure, you could have all of this mass insulated 100% better than mine.

Remember, during your research, that the facade of any single bell stove, or bell/bench is endless, by simply adding a second bell wrap of what ever you desire  (stone mass not wood)  This includes, granite, marble,soapstone ( would be a great choice) and every good quality tile.   With my stove out of sight to 99% of visitors, I experimented on all 4 sides of the 7" stove. This facade covering (2nd layer to your bell) is simple, the choices to cover with are endless, so I think you have a great experience ahead of you.

Best of success.

Trace Oswald wrote:

Hey Scott, I don't disagree with any of your points, and indeed, I'm gathering materials and reading (and re-reading) everything I can find on the subject of RMH, including Thomas' excellent books.  My only "objection" (still too strong a word) is that, while  you are correct that there have been thousands of chimney fires caused by woodstoves, and maybe zero caused by RMH, it isn't really a fair comparison.  People have been using wood stoves for hundreds of years, and RMH have been around for a very short time and in very limited numbers during that time.  I can assure you, at some point, someone will misuse a RMH and burn their house down.  I agree that RMH have fantastic qualities and I'm fully onboard, but I think both wood stoves, of which I have two, and RMHs can both be used correctly or incorrectly.  

The basic principals' of Russian stoves (masonry stoves) and the like have been around for 10's of 100's of years, They were certainly based on burning wood very hot, and with great mass for heat storage.  But that is getting away from the point I was trying to make.

I am afraid I am not going to loose any sleep waiting for a RMH to be used incorrectly thus hearing someone to shout, "see I knew it could happen"   Knowing that someone/somewhere will do something wrong is inevitable.   Knowing what is to gain, and how to get there, for each of our circumstance's seems to be a far more rewarding endeavor, I have chose to help anyone who is trying to help themselves with anything. And I think that is fairly true of many of the teachers/helpers forum fact providers at Permies or any other forum.

A paradox here:  If everyone waited for LED light bulb technology to finally show a LED bulb can burn out, most would be 40-50.000 hours behind.  Like wise, if a person waits until the first catastrophic failure for a RMH that is built to known standards, a lot of wood, and cold mornings will have come and gone.

Best of success to all!

Rich Lee wrote:I'm all for developing and sharing RMH technology.   If your RMH causes fire damage your insurance company probably won't cover it. For example, heating with modern wood stoves is a safe and proven technology. In spite of that, they have super stringent requirements for wood stoves compared to oil, propane, and natural gas. What do you think they're going to say about RMH? Just make sure you've got a solid plan to quickly control any fire related issues. There's a big difference between heating your house efficiently for cost and comfort and burning it to the ground.....  

 

Rich, I will bite,  With a simple search, you can find dozens of house fires started with chimney fires created by wood stoves that when cut back to a smolder (most modern wood stoves do this, no matter what kind of "stringent requirements" they have,  which create huge amounts of creosote. And because of this method of trying to conserve wood, almost always rule out using any type of soft wood, including all the pines.   When they do fire up from there smoldering sleep, they  then become the combustion source for the ensuing  chimney fire. (if anyone disagrees, please do tell, I will listen here as well)   Granted, if you have a old NON-efficient wood stove, the don't do much smoldering as they are busy burning lots of wood to create 80 degree rooms, or very cold rooms when out.

I am not sure what requirements a modern wood stove would have compared to oil, propane, and natural gas, but am willing to listen to what these may be. So please do tell.

And now back to business, I would like to hear about fires caused by properly designed RMH's.  Tom of Dragon fame, Glen of  high mountains in CO,  Walker of Walker stoves,  Fox James across the pond, and myself have all shown that the door of the stove can be easy to make, and almost fool proof.  And Peter V has shown the efficient production of heat. I have burned wood for over 60 years, and 50 years with no supervision from adults. And the last 8 years have been by far the safest.

Honestly, if I had to rank the REASONS for a RMH,  

#1 might very well be SAFETY,
#2 steady heat,
#3 efficient wood burning
#4 ability to burn most any dry wood.

I am fully aware of every technology, having two sides, but I want proof for the arguments, ON BOTH SIDES   I can find proof of 1000's of chimney fires caused by "approved modern wood stoves"  I am afraid, I can't find this with any RMH, built to a proven working dimensions  but am willing to listen.

I forgot to add:

Around here in the midwest, the pubs/bars  often get giant dill pickles- pickled pork hocks- hard boiled eggs,  in 1- 2 gal glass jars,    These were always free if you were patient in waiting for them.  These were used to set on the counter to entice the afternoon crowds.  Sounds good? NOT!

In the back kitchen it was mostly plastic large containers, but lots of them. definitely sealed though.

At the risk of you getting a large catalog every quarter for the rest of your life, (there goes the trees)  you can go to  ULINE  company at uline.com  800 295 5510 to get catalog

There you will find all kinds of containers and a few examples as such

Boston Round glass bottles  32 oz @2.50 in case lots of 12
Many others of this size in glass including large mouth

Glass jugs at 1 gal size  still fairly cheap

wide mouth glass jars at 1 gal and cheap

unfortunately it takes plastic to get bigger for less, but for your situation, they would last for years and years.

Garey Buck wrote:

Scott, the plan is for this to have wheels on one end so it can be moved out of the way, it will get used when I smoke meat, or the occasional cigar in the frigid Michigan weather. I have not settled on a barrel yet, we have steel bolt barrels that are approx.. 14" diameter, I also have a couple different size air compressor tanks. The intended use is for a portable radiant wood burning heater.

Garey, I see this is out of my range of operations, so my advice would not be so accurate.  I didn't know you were shooting for as small as a meat smoker and all the way up for a group radiant heater.  I have not been involved with one with such a range.  But I can ponder with a fair degree of certainty that it will be hard to do both ( low enough heat for meat smoking and high enough for a effective radiant wood burning heater.

Garey Buck wrote:
I assumed from what I have read the 9-18-36 was 9" burn tube 18" cross tube and 36" stack, am I incorrect??

 I will defer this as well as I have not been around enough beyond my full blown J tubes, well beyond a single large barrel, and vastly beyond 14" barrels.

Garey Buck wrote:For the occasional 4-5 hour run time should I insulate the stack in the barrel?

Most J tubes run pretty full bore for there size, ( and about the same amount of time for each burn of approx. 60 minutes all out)   As it has been pointed out, insulating your riser will get you the most efficient burn, but hardest on your steel.

Best of success.