Cujo Liva

Coydon Wallham wrote:It was simply a study on Asian (I think it was specific to China but don't recall for sure, or perhaps Korea or Japan?) eating habits among the aged. The claim was that it was a cultural norm for elders to only eat one meal per day, and that people in this culture were among the most long lived on the planet. The study showed a strong correlation between longevity and those that held to this norm. I chalked it up to being the wisdom one of the most ancient, ongoing cultures, and it seems to fit with the more benevolent science-based speculation I've encountered on the subject.

Intermittent and longer-term fasting is ancient knowledge and part of every major religion- Old and New Testaments, Ramadan for Muslims, etc.  Prehistoric peoples had naturally-forced fasting when times were difficult.  Our bodies are well designed to deal with it, but we've become addicted (by the literal definition) as a society to highly-palatable foods and frequent meals/snacks.  Just ask the average person to give up unnecessary high-carb foods (breads, sweets, salty snacks, soft drinks, etc) and see if their reactions aren't identical to an addicts even down to the withdrawal symptoms and frequent failures and going back to the addictive behavior.

Many of us simply aren't well educated on the topic.  Not surprising really.  It is a pretty niche topic and the food and medical industries have had strong financial incentives to convince us to eat larger quantities and more often.  Did you know that the tobacco companies that employed scientists to make their products more addictive years ago ended up buying major food brands and used the same techniques to create many of the "food products" that are making us fat and unhealthy today?  They've been working on this for decades, so our society has largely forgotten about fasting and making our own meals from highly nutritious/natural ingredients and we are paying a heavy price in our health.
https://lsa.umich.edu/psych/news-events/all-news/faculty-news/many-of-today-s-unhealthy-foods-were-brought-to-you-by-big-tobac.html

Kim Wills wrote:Well... I agree and I disagree. Sure we store excess calories that our bodies can use if needed. But just because we can survive a mini-famine doesn't mean we'll be at our best or not have negative consequences if that state goes on for too long. And I have nothing against fasting, for most people. I know there are some benefits.
But there is also such a thing as "overweight but undernourished". People can be overweight or obese but be vitamin or mineral deficient; they may not look like they're wasting away, but in a small way, more people are than we'd think. Someone who lives on processed foods, fast foods, microwave meals, etc, can quickly acquire excess fat but not have enough nutrients. In any case (calorie deficit or nutrient deficit) our bodies will take what it needs from our own bodies (including protein, calcium, whatever). Many people think that if they go without food their body will start burning all its fat, and that's it. Stop eating and lose weight. But that comes with invisible costs, including eventual "starvation mode" where they'll start retaining fat (if it's a very long time of undereating).

Nutritional imbalances (vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, essential amino acids, etc) are definitely a problem for many people, but that is pretty much unconnected to the calorie topic that I quoted.  Calories are a pure energy measurement and don't correlate closely with nutrition.  You can consume many calories without gaining much nutrition and can eat very nutrient-dense foods that minimize calories.

The body is actually rather good at handling fasts and works to preserve important nutrients and bodily health/function.  It even has a mechanism for recycling old, useless, non-functional and even cancerous cells (autophagy) when it is scrounging for nutrients and energy during fasts.  This actually can provide important health benefits.  One downside of our "world of plenty" and western eating habits is that our bodies never have these periods of fasting that allow us to burn the fat that we commonly accumulate and prevent us from rejuvenating the organs of our body via autophagy.  

Pretty much all of our chronic, modern health problems (obesity, type-2 diabetes, type-3 diabetes/Alzheimers, PCOS, heart attacks, increased cancer rates, etc, etc.) can be directly traced back to our current diets.

Again, the "starvation mode" that you are talking about is definitely the exception, certainly in modern societies.  That describes the stereotypical "bloated belly" malnourished child pictures from some third world nations.

John Weiland wrote:As others weigh in, I'd like to possibly add the question of where the notion came in that breakfast is "the most important meal of the day".

Simple answer: It was a marketing line by John Harvey Kellogg (Kelloggs cereal) and later reinforced by the Edward Bernays (pioneer in the field of propaganda).
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/nov/28/breakfast-health-america-kellog-food-lifestyle
Many societies, both currently and historically, have no real pattern of eating breakfast at all which is why that marketing pitch was created in the first place.

Kim Wills wrote:Supposedly humans need 1600 calories even if laying in bed all day. Many people eat less than that.

Don't confuse "need" with "need to eat".  Many of us have had years of practice at storing excess calories, so a large percentage of people have absolutely no need to eat 1600+ calories every day.  This dates back to our earliest pre-history where food was not consumed as regularly as now with available restaurants, supermarkets and pantries.  Humans have practiced fasting from the very beginning.  I understand that there are legitimate cases of people "wasting away", but that is a comparatively niche problem in modern societies right now.

Generally just coffee.  I usually eat one meal/day around noon.  I generally have some hard-boiled eggs in the refrigerator from my chickens, so on the rare days I want something in the morning, it will be one of those eggs just to hold me until the main meal.

@Cimarron Layne-
I'm happy that type of diet works for you- truly.  As you know, too much of America is overweight and/or has lifestyle-related health issues.  I've been overweight for many years and have moved to a low-carb diet.  It has been by far the easiest for me to maintain.  People who go very low-carb, frequently eat only once or twice/day as they are not hungry very often.  Not trying to sell you on it, but it works for many which is why you are seeing comments about eating less often and/or skipping breakfast here.

Guppies...  Oh, wait....

That's for my chickens.  

Marc Siegel wrote:How do you keep your chickens from not flying out of the garden.  My Garden fence is about 4 feet high.  
But I like the idea of a deep litter, I think this is something that i can easily do inside their run

In my case, I don't.  The raised beds are comparatively small (2 4'x8' beds).  They free range during the day and are naturally attracted to the beds since they are normally fenced out.  The girls can come and go as they please until I close the beds again.

If you are thinking of leaves for deep litter, now is the time to collect them.  Preferably collect and bag when they are as dry as possible and you can use some now and some 6 months from now in your run.

My chickens have multiple jobs.  Some are part time and some are full time.  My girls free range during the day which is relevant to some of the comments below.

I use deep litter (fall leaves) in my run.  The girls poo, scratch around and break it down into a rich leaf mulch.  Throwing in a handful of scratch or other treats occasionally helps the process along while giving them some entertainment.  I clean out the run twice/year and use the mulch in my raised beds and under fruit trees and berry bushes.  I also make a little money selling some each year to my neighbors for their garden.

I use the "Back to Eden" method of dumping wood chips in my mini-orchard and allowing them to break down over time into rich organic soil.  I get the chips from the Chip Drop service, move a bunch of wheelbarrows-full to my orchard and leave them in big piles.  The girls have a ball scratching around in the piles and leveling them out.  Each year, I dig some nice dark soil out from under the chips, use a soil sifter to clean out clutter and use is along with the leaf mulch.  Even after the piles are spread, the girls love the shade/cover under the fruit trees and will frequently rest there, scratch around or dig holes to dust bathe in.

Clean up raised beds.  I open up the fencing at one end and the girls dig around, eating plant matter, seeds and bugs/worms.  Afterwards, I top with leaf mulch for the winter to protect the soil.

Waste disposal service.  The girls help by reducing kitchen waste.  When Japanese beetles come out each year, there are a few plants that they particularly seem to like (plum tree & blackberry).  Their primary defense is to roll off the leaves and fly away when you try to grab them.  So, I hold a bowl of water below them when grabbing and collect a good percentage that way.  Then the girls get to play "bobbing for beetles".

These "jobs" enrich the chickens environment, provide entertainment, food variety and allow them to express their natural behaviors.  In turn, they help me with some of my chores, provide a small amount of income and convert their foraging into tasty and nutritious eggs.

I live in an urban area, so there isn't much wild fruit available.  The only ones are mock strawberry (small quantity and taste like water) and a mulberry tree that grows at the back of my property.  I eat a few of the mulberries, but it isn't my favorite.  The chickens on the other hand, love them and produce plenty of purple poo as proof while they are in season.  ;-)

I do practice some local foraging, just to be aware of edibles available in the area.  So, day lilly flowers, red bud flowers/seeds, dandelions, pine needle tea, etc.  

Timothy Norton wrote:For the first time this year, I'm planning on dumping a bunch in my chickens run to see how they interact with them. I'm hoping that they will mechanically till them into the earth and shred them up. This will be my focus for more resilient leaves such as oak. Who needs a shredder when you have tiny raptors at your beck and call? I'm thinking a few tosses of scratch will motivate them plenty. Eventually I will dig/sift the run soil and incorporate it into my garden systems.

Your general idea is good, but chickens don't scratch leaves "into the earth".  They do scratch them around looking for seeds, bugs and other goodies, but do minimal mixing with the soil.  They will break down the leaves, poo on them and will eventually produce an excellent compost.  You can then easily scoop it up and use it for gardens, under trees/bushes, sell it, etc.

Sorry, but I don't consider that article to be very good.  That said, black soldier fly larvae (BSFL) are an excellent resource.  Black soldier flies will literally fly away and can't easily be used for chickens.  BSFL won't increase egg-laying quantity unless your chickens are badly malnourished.

I've been giving my girls dried BSFL as a treat for about 3 years.  They love them.  
I used to give them dried mealworms, but the BSFL has a better nutrient profile.

I'd like to grow my own BSFL to be cheaper and more sustainable, but I'm too far north to do it easily.