Jack Mundy

It's great you are willing to try.  The native bean producing trees are viewed as a nuisance here, despite their historical value as food.  There is an annual mesquite milling and mesquite pancake get together here in Tucson.  Fantastic food and great company.  

I tried stopping the video in several places, but I couldn't get a good view of the leaf structure and branches.  I could be wrong as well, just pointing it out since they can look so similar.  Much less is available about acacia beans and their uses, and I read somewhere that some part of the plant has a psychoactive property.  It is still a great tree though.  

Tyler, that is certainly an option and would fit into my definition of 'defined property rights'.  I like the checklist in that link.

Another option might be ownership vesting, which is something I have thought a lot about for my own business.  It could entail offering an initial small stake (e.g., 5%), and maybe there is a buy-in for that initial stake, that can grow to some set amount (say 20%) over time as that person hits certain milestones.  That way, there is skin in the game for both parties, sharing in the risks and benefits as the business evolves.  I'm not giving away the farm, but I'm also recognizing the benefits that the other person is bringing to the table (from which I am also benefiting) as they gradually become a larger part of the business. Should we decide to sell, they aren't left in the lurch and benefit from that transaction, even though they may not have any say in it.  I think that death clauses are important too, because I don't want my partner to suddenly find themselves in business with my mom/kids/wife.

Please keep in mind these are simply my thoughts based on my situation and experiences; I'm not here to say they will or won't work for others.  

I am sympathetic to the cause, but I had two initial thoughts when I read through the posts.

1. My neighbor claims a 6 inch strip of land on my side of her fence as her property, and therefore wanted compensation for that 6 inches because I was using it as my own (so she says, although neither of us owned these properties when that fence was built).  Fortunately, she quickly found that her lack of access, coupled with adverse possession laws, mitigated her claim to said 6 inches and it went nowhere.  However, that experience would not make me interested in a loosely-defined property "sharing" arrangement. I would want ownership, or as has been discussed, an irrevocable trust that has actionable by-laws.  Per this example, even ownership can be problematic but at least there is a process (for better or worse).  

2. I see a parallel to the (hobby) farmers and homesteaders in the restaurant industry, where the owners invest a lot of money up front to buy and build out the infrastructure, only to be crushed under the debt pressure due to lack of cash flow.  The guy who benefits from this is the next guy that comes along, that is getting a steal from the fire sale and lack of the need for capital outlay.  There is also a similar element of people getting into the restaurant business that have never run a restaurant, similar to farming, but have romanticized the idea.  So experience will greatly impact the quality of the experience for both the owner and their family/employees/customers.  

So I have concluded that I would want some sort of defined property rights (preferably ownership) so that I'm not at the behest of the crazy lady next door (or your personal laundry list of can do's and can't do's).  Further, I believe that for these types of land-sharing arrangements to work optimally, there needs to be a mentor-mentee relationship between the land-holder and the people seeking that opportunity.  Specifically, the owner needs to have something to offer other than just the land in exchange for labor (because that sounds a lot like a job).  [This goes off-topic] - While there is something to be said for the Woofer-like arrangements, I shake my head at the pay-for-the-privledge setups of living on my farm, working your ass off, and at the end of the season get out.  I have done several internships while in undergrad and grad school and all were paid; so it's hard for me to understand why that's different in agriculture/permaculture.  

Maybe this is the kind of thinking that is the problem and people like me are just contributing to a system that continues to devolve.  I hope not, but I'm open to the possibility.  

Are you sure that was a mesquite and not an acacia?  It was hard to tell from the video, but that was my initial thought - both trees put off bean pods.  

The pods are usually dried and ground into flour; boiled, pressed into paste, and fermented; or simmered for a long time and the resulting liquid simmered again for molasses.  You may have better luck with one of these methods, but you'll need a lot of beans (e.g., 5 gallon bucket full).  

Steve, I appreciate links such as these. While I am a long-term desert rat and love Tucson, my wife would like to explore other options, which means I would like to explore other options too.  Her requirements are trees, mountains, and water, west of the Mississippi.  That has led us to begin looking in the Pacific NW at properties such as the one you posted.  

One thing that has been difficult to get our heads around are the variances in price on the land in what appears to be very similar areas and very similar land features.  For instance, when I look at the link you posted, I also see land listed in that same general area and maybe it's 40 acres for $200k vs. the 55 acres for $400k. I know that improvements, logging, etc will play into this, and we simply need to get our boots on the ground as soon as possible to check it all out.  

When you use the word "we" in your post, who are you referring too - you and your immediate crew, the permie community in that area, the community at large?  While it appears there are plenty of like minded people in that area (based of this forum and others), that is certainly an intangible factor for which local insight would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

I think a person purchasing this sort of land should have a very hefty bank balance so that major earthworks can be installed as soon as possible, before the house and gardens are in place.

This is key, and I couldn't agree more (even in the absence of a flood plain).  The dirt here is so devoid of anything resembling organic matter that earthworks are going to be the primary way we build and protect our soil. Otherwise, it will blow, burn, or wash away.  

Jay, the flood plain maps were redrawn by FEMA and Pima County in 2010 and became official in 2011.  These new maps greatly expanded the flood plain areas, much to the consternation of the residents which were impacted by now needing flood plain insurance and disclosure when selling.   If you can find the old maps, and compare them to the new maps, it might give you a better historical sense of the flood danger on the land you are looking to buy.  For instance, my parcel in central Tucson went from not being anywhere close to a flood plain, to now having half of my property in the new flood plain (which ironically is the highest part).  So I just stand on the side that isn't in the flood plain when it rains and I'm good.

As you mentioned in your original post, you will be dealing with sheet flow (at least on the properties in the area you initially proposed).  While Tyler's caution is appreciated, the link to the farm wiped out by flooding was in a canyon, which would likely be a bad idea in AZ. The amazing thing about the story Tyler posted is that they rebuilt the farm; not sure I would have come to the same conclusion. Having been on the land in the area that you are considering, it is fairly flat, with a very mild (maybe several feet) slope from east to west.  Thus, large berms and basins (similar to the CCC swales) that overflow into one another should work to mitigate flood dangers, while also making use of that water when it does come.  Vegetation will help immensely!

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that you disregard the flood plain information.  I personally believe that given the amount of rainfall here, we need to work with this problem and turn it into a solution. The University of Arizona's very own Gary Paul Nabhan and one of his books 'Growing Food in a Hotter, Drier Land - Lessons from Desert Farmers on Adapting to Climate Uncertainty' has some examples of in-canyon flood plain farming and many other techniques.  It's worth a trip to the library.  

 

Yep, in Tucson converting a 1/4 acre barren lot into something less barren and toxic.  My best planting advice would be to stick with the native velvet mesquite and ironwood trees, my experience with palo verde trees has always involved a boring beetle that ultimately harms the roots and makes them fall over in the monsoon. Prickly pear, agave, wolf berry, hackberry, greythorn, Sonoran sunflower, mallow are all native food producing plants - plenty more too. With the right strategies, many other desert adapted fruit trees will grow - I grow fig, pomegranate, limon, guava, and quince.

Check out Desert Survivors nursery for native and desert-adapted plants, and of course Native Seeds/SEARCH for your veggie and wildflower needs.  I hope that is a start, green that desert!