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John Natoli

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since Mar 11, 2017
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Recent posts by John Natoli

Hi all, can you help recommend some resources I can learn to deepen my knowledge of the many kinds of useful plants out there? I would like to learn how to identify and understand different families and types of plants, their uses and needs from soil types to chemistry, etc, with the primary purpose of being able to create permaculture projects in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic US. I am looking for self-learning resources, books, videos and online courses. I know that the best way to learn these things would be directly from experts in the field, but that's just not realistic for me right now. Thank you!
5 months ago
I've butchered my first pig and I'd love to know your favorite pig heart, kidney and liver recipes. Thanks!
2 years ago
I ended up killing one of my pigs this past Friday with a 22. I can't imagine having done it any other way — it was hard enough to get a good shot from less than a foot away with a 22; those things don't stay still around me for a second.
2 years ago
Does it make sense to plant annual cover crops in a perennial bed or will they compete?
2 years ago
What would be the disadvantage if any of hitting it in the head with a full size sledge hammer to really knock it out then cutting the jugular? Would that just injure but not necessarily knock it out? Or would it kill it outright and make bleeding impossible?
2 years ago
Well apparently I take a lot of bug pics. We love bugs.

Water Scorpion

Bee drinking sugarwater

2 years ago
Thanks William, that's a great idea, especially getting some more use out of it with storage.
2 years ago
This is my first time raising pigs. I have 2 in a roughly 18x18' pen. The smell is pretty terrible sometimes. I lined the bottom with logs/sticks and covered with woodchips and other mulch and I clean the poo out regularly, however it still stinks. I've found that after rain is by far the worst. I've also seen some videos on youtube of people using logs on the bottom covered with a very thick layer of mulch (rice husks, banana leaf mulch, woodchips). Their pens have a concrete foundation to block moisture and a roof to keep it dry and they say there is basically no smell. This makes good logical sense to me, but before I invest in putting a roof over this whole thing, I'm wondering, in your experience, does keeping the pen dry significantly reduce the odor? Thanks!
2 years ago
I'd echo William's concern about the ducks eating all the vegetation. I have three very young ducks and they gobble up duckweed faster than I can get it in the pond which has about a 1000 sq ft surface. Looking forward to seeing your calculations on that as they may help me out!
2 years ago
So I thought I would post an update on my progress (or lack thereof) and where I'm planning to go from here.

Since this original post, it's warmed up and we're approaching late summer.

I decided to focus my efforts primarily on digging a pond and raising some chickens and pigs. Having just moved here last October, I don't have enough knowledge of the soil and the systems here to be comfortable making perennial or tree plantings. I also just love raising chickens.



So first the pond. I dug the whole thing out with a small shovel. It's about 35'x35' and 3' deep in the middle. I elevated it with a berm around the border and used a large liner.

Here it is when I finally got it all dug out.

You can tell it took a while because the grass grew back on the sides by the time I finished!

Liner and water in:

Mulched and ducks a-swimming:

Note the cattails floating around. I dug up some cattails locally and stuck them in plastic pots with clay. That was a stupid thing to do as the clay just dissipated and the cattails floated away. I also did not make the shelf of the pond level enough and the pots try to tip over. I'll need to figure out a way to get potted plants to stay put. Any suggestions? Stick rocks in the bottom?

I was super geekily excited to see and hear treefrogs breeding in the pond. I've never seen them, or much of any other wildlife here in NJ before.


So, now my big challenge with the pond is to get tons of vegetation into it without compromising the liner. I want to try to keep that duck poo filtering and the water oxygenated naturally.



At the same time as the pond, I worked on putting up a deer fence around the whole back property which is roughly 1000ft perimeter. After looking at lots of costly options I decided to go with heavy duty (almost the heaviest available) 7' deer fence on 6.5' T-posts. The T-posts dig in about a foot so the fence attaches to that and then I lay the bottom of the fence skirted along the ground outside the fence. This will hopefully prevent some critters from digging in though of course I know it's not foolproof. I hope it will also prevent chickens from going under.

Before the fence was completely up it already got its first test by a deer. I had it about 3/4 done, but a big doe found her way in anyway. When I walked back there she spooked and tried to escape but of course, in her panic, couldn't find her way out. She slammed herself against the fence in multiple places and ultimately, to my surprise, ended up shimmying her way under the fence and out. Upon inspecting the fence afterwards the damage was no worse than a few torn zip-ties here and there.

Not bad looking:

Pretty heavy-duty stuff:



Man, these chickens have been quite a struggle. I bought myself a prebuilt coop from Tractor Supply and I'm pretty happy with it. I started out with 14 day-old chicks. They were happy to hang out in the coop and I put up a temporary fence around it about 400 sq ft. They scratched that to hell but were still content. Ultimately, one night, somehow about half the chickens got into the coop at sun-down, but the door closed on the other half. By the time I got out there to shut them in, the outdoor half had figured out that they could jump on top of the coop and roost there. I didn't want to rustle them up because I knew they would end up jumping off and over the fence if I did. Now apparently they far preferred this roosting place, because early every evening, that's where they would end up and it was a struggle to try to get them to go into the coop. Eventually some of them made their way into the tree overhanging the coop and the rest of the gang followed. In short order they realized they could jump out of this tree and over the fence. So, from that point I had free-range chickens, which didn't seem like much of a problem, until the fox showed up.

I have this problem with underestimating the wildlife in NJ. I grew up in a small suburban plot and never saw anything more than squirrels. To my disappointment I one day I found nothing but a puff of feathers where my dear young rooster should have been; this only the day after I had explained to my wife, Heather, that I don't think I'm going to be able to ever kill that guy, as I'd grown pretty attached to him. He and a hen were a couple weeks younger than the others and had been henpecked by the rest of the flock. The Rhode Island Red rooster always valiantly protected his Easter Egger hen from the rest of the flock and it was lovely to see them sticking together until they reached the same size as the rest of the flock. Even at that point they remained quite attached like a young married couple. I imagine that this gentleman threw himself into the fox's mouth to save his hen.

The young couple:

From that point, in the span of about two weeks, my flock was winnowed down to 5 hens and I never caught sight of the predator, though I suspected fox. Mind you, the only fox I've ever seen was a mangy, sick fellow staggering about in my in-laws' backyard some years ago. Finally one day as I was walking to the shed I saw about 100 yards away what looked like a big orange cat, until the slightest of movements gave away its canine form and I knew. It was stalking my flock. Barely did I twitch that it somehow sensed my presence, turned and fled. After it I ran, leaping over my gate and through the tall grass, but of course it had disappeared. The next day I was finally able to get the remainder of the flock into the coop and shut them in. They are not happy about it, though I'm not sure they would mind if their chicken brains could comprehend the dangerous situation in which they were living.

But I have to say, that creature was beautiful. In the single-digit-seconds that I watched it across the yard, its deep burnt orange fur glistened in the sunlight and it's slender legs ever so quietly crept. Fleeing me, it turned, fluid as an expert brushstroke from nose to tail and vanished. Of course it's no secret how it became so big and healthy, having feasted on 9 of my chickens.

Here are the survivors, begrudgingly cooped up:

So, what am I going to do with these chickens? I considered getting an LGD so that I can continue to free-range them, which is truly what I want to do. But the idea of raising and training a puppy to do this work is daunting. This leaves me researching and contemplating predator-proof enclosure options. Any suggestions?



Yeah, so you all weren't kidding when you said that ducks are messy. I purchased 5 ducklings and initially kept them in a big plastic tote bedded with pine shavings in the garage. It quickly became obvious that the maintenance of such a setup would be so frequent that I had better figure something else out. In the backyard, I created a small circular enclosure of chicken wire into which I placed a small kiddie pool. This is where I kept the ducklings during the day, then back in the tote in the garage at night. This seemed to work out well. Ultimately my laziness got the better of me. For all the stink and mess, my oh my are ducklings cute. I'm not generally one to be enamored with the cuteness of any animals (other than human babies, of course), but their fuzzy big-footed clumsiness had me giggling "pool-side" through my lunch breaks.

One night, I decided to simply turn the big tote over on top of them within the enclosure. quietly sleeping under a big plastic tote surrounded by chicken wire, what could go wrong? Well, the next morning everything appeared to be just as I left it, until I turned over the tote and only 3 out of 5 chicks remained. I'll never really know what happened to them; there was no sign of disturbance whatsoever.

Now the ducks live in the new pond and seem to be doing fine. From the advice I've read throughout this forum though, I see that even 3 ducks will soon turn this pond into a sh*t-fest; further necessitating my quest to plant-populate this pond and quick.

Does anyone think that this pond is just not going to be suitable for even 3 ducks? What alternative setup would be best?



I made the big fat decision to raise a couple pigs in April, though it took about a month of calling around just to find piglets to purchase. I ended up driving 2 hours into upstate NY to purchase these ones. You know what? I don't have a whole lot to say about it. It was a rash decision that I jumped into. I built a pretty shitty pen for them which is holding up just fine despite its ragged appearance. The entire enclosure was covered in poison ivy and vegetation at the time I put them in there and within a week or so it was all gone. I continue to feed them grass clippings and all the vegetation cut from yardwork as well as kitchen scraps, but they mostly eat standard pig feed.

They are actually really easy to raise, and I find them quite pleasant. The problem, as you know, is that they smell absolutely terrible. I've come to the conclusion that if I could just keep the pen dry and heavily mulched, it would eliminate much of the smell, however, I don't think I'm up for the task or expense of building a roof over the whole thing anytime soon. I had planned to let them get to about 300lbs each, which would be around December–January, but I think I'm going to get them in the freezer within the next few weeks and try again next year with a vastly improved pen.

The other potential option is setting up rotating pasture with electric fence. However, I'm extremely nervous that they will escape, since I live in a suburban neighborhood. Also, with only 2.5 acres, I don't know if I really have enough land to pasture them without sacrificing too much space. Any thoughts on the best way to house pigs and minimize smell? I've been viewing these and thinking I might try to create a similar setup:

As you can see from my photos, I've made an attempt with the logs and woodchips, but without the roof it all gets wet and smelly and the woodchips get stomped into the mud.



I've done zero planting except for one bed of veggies for the kids. I plan to mow down a field of tall grass, mulch with woodchips and plant in winter peas, winter lettuce, forage radish and oats as a cover crop then use it for chicken and/or pig feed next year and create beds for annual veggies. I'd like to avoid tilling it but I'm concerned about the cover crop seeds competing with the grass that's there now.

What I have found is that the soil is extremely clayey and heavy here. I'm hoping that the addition of woodchips plus chop and drop cover crops, pig and chicken manure and bedding will get me started toward improving it.

Found a free source of woodchips:

I would like to grow the most calorie and nutrient dense foods possible.
jerusalem artichoke
hardy peanuts
sweet potatoes

What other suggestions do you have for calorie dense staple foods? Perennials would be great too of course.


Trees and Shrubs

In this category I face a dilemma. I am not sure for how long I will live on this property. I love it, but I don't really like living in NJ with the living expenses, lack of land and all the development. So, with that ambiguity, I'm reluctant to plant trees that will take 5–10 years to produce nuts. But, with that aside, I believe these would be the ones I would want to plant.
pine nut
white oak
chestnut oak

Any suggestions?


Well, I know that was a lot; I appreciate it if you made it to the end! As always I'd love your suggestions about any part of this or stuff I didn't mention. Thanks!
2 years ago