Dangus McFinghin

For anyone curious about this experiment, I found an interesting discussion from some British cat owners about burning wood-based kitty litter for heating fuel.

http://www.recyclethis.co.uk/20080826/reusing-wood-based-cat-litter-as-heating-fuel

It sounds like result vary, but some are very happy with it. Its interesting that one of the people in that discussion was talking about compressing it in a section of pipe using a press. That's exactly what I was talking about doing. Only in his case the pellets he created didn't hold together well, which is most likely because he was leaving the feces out of it.

I've been having trouble sourcing materials around here for my J-tube. I'm still fairly new to this area and don't know where to find things like I would have back home. Google seems to be about useless for finding local sources of refractory materials and the scrap yards are not answering me by email yet. I'll need to call them when I get a chance. I do know a source of white clay kitty litter and the more white clay is, the higher its melting point tends to be. I have a lot of silicon dioxide in the form of "crystal" kitty litter. I'm going to crush the silicon dioxide into a powder and mix it with the clay to raise its melting temp. I'll probably coat the inside of the riser with pure silicon dioxide powder for maximum heat resistance. So the stove that may end up burning kitty litter fuel may also be made from kitty litter....

Toxo is certainly a serious threat in very limited circumstances. Its highly important to understand that cats only shed the oocysts once in their entire life, and that's only if they have toxo(not all cats do). Ours have all been with us 4 years or more and so definitely are not a toxo threat. Wild cats like bobcats and cougars also function as reproduction hosts for toxo, but its worth noting that while sexual reproduction of the pathogen can only occur in cats; asexual reproduction can occur in a variety of settings. It is a very hardy pathogen and may persist in soil for a long period of time. Soil is certainly the main vector by which people become infected either through poor handling practices or failing to wash produce. Toxo should be taken seriously, but at the same time it is worth understanding where the threat actually tends to come from. Incinerating their wastes is a sure-fire way(pun intended) to ensure their wastes do not infect soil. One should never handle cat wastes with bare hands though for a whole bunch of reasons. I would even recommend you avoid handling it with gloves more than necessary, preferring instead to interact with the material via tools.

I have been doing a lot of research on the idea of making biochar from this and discovered there's a number of others who use wood-based litter who are already burning it. None seem to be using a rocket stove though. Its going to take me a bit of time here to rig up the compactor for it, but I will be compressing it into pellets/rods that will be sized to be ideal for RMH use. My rocket heater will be drawing outside air and will be closed completely to the interior atmosphere when the fuel door is closed. Any latent moisture should evaporate in the feed tube due to the residual heat from the fire box. The bulk of the moisture will be driven out by my compactor through its drain line. Our kitties produce so much litter though that we should have no trouble heating our place all winter just off their litter if we can develop a practical way to manufacture the fuel pellets/rods

Thanks for the reply! Interesting!!! We're basically using saw dust as kitty litter. Its horse bedding, but its kiln-dried pine. I was thinking about putting it into a hydraulic press that has an outflow line at the bottom to drive out the liquids. Seems really wasteful to kiln-dry the stuff. Kenya has so much sun, I'm shocked they aren't using solar systems to desiccate the wastes. The raisin industry uses the sun to do a similar job on grapes, but that obviously has a much better odor lol....   I was thinking about basically making logs or pellets out of it and then stacking them to dry outside somewhere sheltered. Might need to put screen around it to keep bugs off of it though. Our kitties produce like 3 tidy cat buckets packed full of it every 3-4 days so it would potentially produce quite a fuel supply for us if we could utilize it.

I know this may be a relatively unpleasant topic for some, but I know that throughout history there have been some cultures that used manure for various sorts of fires. Most notably to me is the Mongols, who conquered much of the known world using swords and spears forged over fires made from dried horse manure. Horse manure contains a lot of grass though, and so obviously it gained a lot of its burn characteristics from that cellulose content. Aside from containing carbon, feces also contains a high amount of nitrates that might not burn at regular temperatures for a wood fire, but might do so under extreme heat. This makes me wonder if inside a "rocket" type stove, manure could be burned and the nitrates would be able to form nitrous oxide, which in turn might further oxidize carbons in the exhaust stream providing additional chemical reactions beyond what a normal fire produces.

Does anyone have experience burning manures of any kind? Does anyone have any scientific expertise on this matter with regard to the chemistry of the reactions? We have a large and steady stream of cat wastes available to us that are in pine litter, and would like to know if we can incinerate them and if there'd be any benefit to doing so.

Judith Browning wrote:Dangus, this is a great site, well moderated and very much worth hanging in there if the information here suits your needs.  I'm guessing here...I think I kind of remember the post that might be the one of yours that disappeared and I think it might have had to do with what sounded a bit aggressive about humans vs cats?  anyway the probation notice is standard but also includes a sentence or so about what to change pertaining to the particular post.
You are very welcome here and most any ideas that don't tread on the 'be nice' rule pass.  Included under 'be nice' though is the idea that no one here is 'less than perfect' and should not be treated so....that leaves space and comfort for all sorts of new ideas and thoughts.  Something like you were bringing up (possibly?) might have fit in the 'cider press' where we can hash out more controversial subjects, but you would first need to earn the privilege to post there through apples for good posts.

Thanks to all for the replies. I grew up reading the Fox Fire books and I used to do blacksmithing out of my dad's back yard until the city shut me down. I've always loved old timey crafts and DIY thinking. I do find this site to be an interesting resource and I do actually appreciate the "be nice" mentality even if I don't necessarily understand how its enforced in any clear way. Ironically, on the post you referred to, I was trying to make a point about how an unemotional response in a hypothetical sense could be a very negative thing toward humans, but was not actually advocating any negativity toward humans or cats in general. In fact, everyone in the discussion, even those who expressed dislike of cats were displaying a very good attitude toward them. So I chalk it up to differences in how I communicate, but it does reduce my interest in posting somewhat. I'm certainly not upset in any real sense about it. I just consider it confusing is all. I always try to be nice, but other people often seem to have very different notions of what is nice than I do.

I've read this thread in great detail and still can't say I'm at all clear on what the rules are in any consistent and technical sense. I too feel like I got my hand slapped, and in the case of my particular experience it was clearly a gross misunderstanding of the intent of my statement. There was little to no guidance on what changes I was actually supposed to make, so I just feel awkward about trying to post anything at this point. Not a very welcoming atmosphere on some levels. I generally feel like most places are under-moderated and allow too much hostility. I applaud that this site tries to keep the discourse civil. I just don't think my way of communicating is likely to be greeted with much understanding. Though I'm from the Midwest, I can really relate to the notion of having trouble communicating with Midwesterners in a succinct and direct manner. In my case its an issue of having an autistic personality, but either way the direct nature of how I communicate doesn't seem to fit in well here. Prioritizing emotional statements over technical ones just makes my head hurt to ponder honestly. Its a shame though because I really find a lot of the topics here to be valuable and fascinating despite all the censorship. Personally, I find a learn a great deal from studying the perspectives outside my own. I try to avoid building a "Great Wall of China" around my mind, lest I stagnate within its confines.

Its definitely going to be a small heater. I'm planning on using a feed system that is sealed off and fresh air intake from outside so the combustion system is totally sealed from the interior atmosphere.

I'm thinking about a 4-6 inch wide burn chamber that is about 8-12 inches long, but I am still unclear as to how tall to make the expansion riser. I plan to put an oven/burner area at the top of the barrel, and use this as our primary means of cooking. For warmer seasons I will need an alternative exhaust line though so the heat doesn't build up in the structure from the cooking fire.

Yeah not ideal floors for using as a thermal mass. At this point we're thinking we want to use the kitchen counters and maybe some of the cabinetry overhead as thermal mass. I need to get a good idea how to proportion everything

Hi folks. I am building a THOW in Eastern Iowa that is about 174 sq ft inside and has about a 7 foot ceiling(average). So basically around 1200 cubic feet of space. I want to build a wood burning system that provides heat, but can also be used to heat up an oven or to provide heat to burners. We might also like to heat water with it if we can. We really like the idea of RMHs and we also really like the idea of the "Kimberly" stove. We basically need something that is very light, but very efficient. We certainly can't afford a 4000 dollar wood stove either, and we have the necessary skills to build our own. I used to do blacksmithing and used to build my own forges.

I'm planning to build a J-tube style heater with a fire box and heat riser lined with a mix of fire clay and desiccant crystals(SiO2). I plan to use a selective exhaust line from there that can send the heat either to an oven chamber and possibly to a water heater as well. We have very limited time to get this thing built since the cold is coming fast right now, but we're very motivated. Our THOW will be insulated with mineral wool for fire safety and we'll be lining the structure in metal, and using as much fire-resistant material for our cabinets and other interior components. We plan to have exterior air intake to the fire so that when closed it will be a totally sealed system relative to the inside of the THOW.

We would really appreciate any suggestions and ideas regarding what size and design to go with, and suggestions regarding materials and construction techniques. Size of firebox, types of fuel recommended, etc. would all be useful. We should have access to a great deal of scrap wood, and even used motor oil. I would love to have an incinerator that can handle diverse fuels, but that isn't vital. Our THOW is extremely light compared to most in its size range so there's less mass to store heat in than many, but creative suggestions in that area would also be welcome.

Thanks for the welcome! I look forward to learning what I can here, especially about rocket heaters right now!