Martin Hewell

Hi guys,

Thank you very much for your advice. Much appreciated!

Just wondering if anyone has any recommendations for the campsites for our visit in September? Ideally not Airbnb or booking.com, as we are looking for any small, family run campsites that are part of the permies community that we can support, and even socialise with, where we could pay something like 10/20 euros a night to stay with them? We would much prefer this, than a huge campsite, and would prefer to have a night of socialising with fellow permies.

Thank you!

Hi Andreas,

I appreciate your advice and point, however, I think you have misunderstood. We are not willing to pay 50,000 for 2 hectares. I said 2 hectares is our minimum land size and 50,000 euros is our maximum we will look at (not buy at), with the view to negotiate down to a fair price for whichever land is in question. Our actual maximum is 35,000, if you would like to know. But that would have to meet ALL our criteria, and we would still negotiate. But of course would like it as cheap (and fair) as possible. And of course, I'm sure you know, the price of properties all depends on the type of land, location, what types and number of building/s are on the land, what water sources, views/neighbours/access, types of trees, plus other variables, factors and characteristics etc etc. So unless you know ones criteria, it is hard to say whether something is a bargain or not; or paying over the asking price, driving up land prices etc. For example, we found 20 hectares, 2 buildings, with a stream and waterfall, 3 water sources, south facing with sight hill, lovely selection of organic fruit trees etc for 10,000 euros. But the location is not ideal. So obviously, we wouldn't pay 35,000 or 50,000 for it. Our maximum is 35,000 only if it is way larger than 2 hectares and meets ALL our criteria. And our criteria is specific and unique to us. Just FYI, we are generally looking at properties at 20,000 (to negotiate) that has year a round stream, 2 other water sources, a large ruin/habitable building/s, 20,000m2+, within 5-10km to Gois/Arganil/Lousa, plus other criteria that we find important to us. Especially as our goal is not to just live off-grid, we have other factors to put into perspective, such as distance from Lisboa and Porto and Coimbra by moped, plus other things. Because if our goal was to just buy any piece of land and live off grid, of course it would be pretty easy to find land that is 20,000m2+ and under 5,000 Euros, and yes, within your quote of 50 cents per square metre etc. I understand your point, but it is redundant to quote land prices as not all pieces of land have the same characteristics. Plus, it all depends on ones criteria and preferences.

Good, I'm glad you could find what you want. And it would be very interesting and beneficial to chat to you about how you came about to find and buy your land. We look forward to chatting about it

We haven't told any estate agents our budget. We have just told them our criteria. I fully understand paying too much will drive prices up and would make it hard for locals to buy land. That is not our intention at all. We are being very aware of our impact and we have worked very had to save up our money to embark on such a venture, especially at our young age, so I can guarantee that we are not coming and splashing the cash for any piece of land that is 2 hectares. We are not trying to pay for land over the asking value and are fully aware of foreigner pricing; but I am sure there are many people on here, including yourself, that could give us plenty of tips and hints of what to do/not to do - so that we do not pay over the asking price. We are going to try our best to find land that is reasonably priced, fair for both parties and obviously do not want to pay over the value for land - that would be detrimental to both our bank balance and the local economy. However, the price of land has more variables and factors than just size of land, as I'm sure you are aware of. So please appreciate that we are not going to Portugal to flash money and throw it around; and buy any piece of 20,000m2 land for 50,000 euros. We are going to negotiate and pay a fair price for land that meets our criteria, just as you probably did.

Yes, we are going to view a couple of these type of properties that were affected by the fires in Gois the next time we visit. Ah, that is good to know. Thank you for your advice. What other advice can you give us? Especially for the process of purchasing? And during the legalities section? Are there any particular grey areas where buyers (particularly foreigners) get taken advantage of? Any advice would be much appreciated.

We look forward to seeing you in September.

Thank you!

Hi Fil,

Excellent! Yes, I will give that a go. Thank you very much

We are looking at any land over 20,000m2 and must have 2 water sources, ideally stream, but the price all depends on location/water sources etc. The price usually ranges from 20,000 to 50,000 euros for us. We have found them either through putting up posters/adverts on noticeboards in the areas we want to move then people contact us, or contacting local estate agents and they contact us when something comes up that meets our criteria or the usual pureportugal/ERA/P.P.Property/GoRustico/IAD Portugal etc

To be honest, our best searches came from driving around and finding which area we want to be in, then you can easily say yes or no when you see something online. Then just going to the local estate agents, telling them your criteria and then they will get in touch with you when something comes up.

Where are you thinking of moving to? And when do you next go? Would be great to meet you!

Thank you

Martin & Maike x

Hi all,

Hope you are well. Newbie to the community here...

Me and my partner, both 28, from England and Germany, have found a few pieces of land to view on the 20th/21st/22nd/23rd September around Coimbra, in particular, the Arganil and Gois area, with the plan to move there early next year. We are looking for campsites or places to stay, but can only mainly find big, fancy places to stay on Airbnb or Booking.com, which isn't really us. So wondering if anyone had any recommendations, or would be happy to make some friends, or know of any small, family run campsites that are part of the permies community that we can support, where we could pay like 10 euros a night to stay with them? We would much prefer this, than a huge campsite, and would prefer to have a night of socialising with fellow permies.

We are new to this, and have been on a couple of visits to narrow down our search to the Arganil or Gois area, but now going to view some pieces of land with the view to buy, so would be great to hear from any other permies in that area and maybe we could meet up when we come in September?

Thank you and we look forward to hearing from you

Much love x

Hi Monika,

Hope you are well. Thank you for the reply and some information of your journey, and what a journey it was! Great to hear all turned out well in the end, even though you had some ups and downs along the way

Thats great that you can recommend the estate agent, Adam, would you be able to pass on his details to us (via private message)?

That is interesting about the electricity bills and the post box, good to hear that there always seems to be a way to smooth things out.

So, which town/village do you live near Monika? And are there many other expat or local permies near you? If you dont mind me asking, do you work there or live off your land? It would be great to meet you when we come in June

As mentioned, we are both 28, we don't know much about this way of living, we just know we are so passionate about natural living, organic way of life and want to enjoy life with nature and animals as much as we can, whilst we can, and we don't have that much money saved up and therefore would still need some sort of small income.

So, what do others that are in a similar position to us do for income? Do many have jobs in the nearby towns? Have glamping style guest houses? Live totally off their land? Raise animals for meat/milk/eggs? Or sell their produce like honey, fruits and veg? We are not trying to steal ideas or anything like that, it is just very good to know what people do, cos if there are already lots of people competing in the same market or people are doing really well, we don't want to affect that. So it would be nice to know what could be done or if we could/should try something different. Like what is an area of need that we may be able to help with... for example, we are both very into natural living, health, organic food, fitness and wellbeing, and we have thought of having some sort of natural retreat? Have like tents/yurts (informing the council of course) and offer natural retreats, offering meals/yoga/fitness sessions etc? Or I am a Sport Scientist and Personal Trainer, so could even run something like a bootcamp/fitness classes in Castelo Branco or Coimbra or or local town or I could even work at a local gym for the first couple of years until the permaculture side of the land has started to fruit well that we don't need to buy as many things and could live off the land more. We are also quite artsy and paint / knit / make origami - so wondered if we could sell our things at any markets nearby? Also, we love horses and are trained, and thus could offer horse trekking? Do you think any of these ideas could work? Any thoughts? We are open to any avenues of areas of needs, so feel free to throw any ideas at us and we can start thinking. And we ask at this stage as this info kind of allows us to make a better idea of where we should try to look to move.

Please feel free to shoot our ideas down with the reality of how things really are in these rural areas, or give any other ideas, as we are new to this and would just like some information on what people out there are already doing and/or what would be quite beneficial.

Thank you for all your help

Hi Velho,

Thank you very much for the information. It's very helpful.

Okay, I think we will prepare for it to be tiresome and pretty long-winded - and will take it slow and steady, and make sure everything is right!

Great point - how do we check the size on Google? Because there are a few we like, but it doesn't give the exact location or address, how can we check that before we waste our time? Should we just ask the website for the exact location and check on google earth?
Also, how do we check the names of the owners of the farm? Will it be the local office in the city of the district?

That's great - we will have to meet you and your father for a drink in June

Thank you!

Hi all,

We hope you are well. We are new to this forum and sorry if this gets posted often, but we would be hugely grateful if anyone could help us on our first steps on this new permaculture journey!

Myself, Martin, and my partner, Maike, both 28, from the UK and Germany, have had a few years experience in permaculture around the world, and briefly in Portugal, and are ready to take the big step (hopefully with help from the kind permaculture community) to buy land in Central Portugal, near Coimbra or Castelo Branco. We are looking for about 5 - 10 acres, with tree cover, a ruin to renovate (ideally with habitation licence) and ideally some year round water source, like stream or spring - as we are looking to be pretty self-sufficient. We have seen plenty for sale online, but we know from experience, it seems everything in Portugal is better and more beneficial face-to-face, just as an off-chance, does anyone know any land for sale that meets that criteria that is cheap close to them? And that is of correct documentation, registration etc.

We are coming to Portugal in June for a couple of weeks to get the ball rolling and meet some people, see some areas and land for sale - with the idea to move permanently in early 2020. It would be great to meet some permies near Coimbra or Castelo Branco area, if anyone is keen for a drink and to help us on this journey? We feel it would be great to meet people, hear your journeys and your ideas - and best of all, make friends!

Just to start us off, before we look around to buy land, what sort of documentation do we need to sort out, so that when we find the land we would like to buy, we are ready to go? Like how do we get our Fiscal Numbers? When we come in June, we would like to sort these things out, so is it possible to sort it out in a few days? Or is it one of those that requires numerous visits to the Camera?

Also...
- I read a few topics on the forum regarding some sellers (mainly estate agents) not giving details of the property/registration until after paying a deposit, could someone clarify their journey and how it went? Is it common that land is not in the correct name or size or registration? If so, what is the process?
- Should we go through an estate agent or buy from someone local with the help of a good lawyer/solicitor?
- Could anyone recommend a good lawyer/solicitor for the Coimbra or Castelo Branco area that we could meet with in June?

Sorry for the long post and many questions, I am sure things will become clearer soon.

Thank you for any help, it would be much appreciated
And so looking forward to living close by to some of you and becoming part of the permaculture community in Portugal

Much love, Martin & Maike.

Hi Andreas,

How are you? And how is everything going on your land?

Myself and my partner, Maike, both 28, have had a few years experience in permaculture around the world, and briefly in Portugal, and are ready to take the big step (hopefully with help from the kind permaculture community) to buy land in Central Portugal, near Coimbra or Castelo Branco. We are looking for about 5 - 10 acres, with tree cover, a ruin to renovate and ideally some year round water source, like stream or spring - as we are looking to be pretty self-sufficient. Do you know of any land for sale with these characteristics near you or in the area?

We are coming to Portugal in June for a couple of weeks to get the ball rolling - with the idea to move permanently in early 2020. It would be great to meet some permies in the Coimbra or Castelo Branco area, if anyone is keen for a drink and to help us on this journey?

Just as a first question, before we buy land, what sort of documentation do we need to sort out, so that when we find the land we would like to buy, we are ready to go? Like how do we get our Fiscal Numbers? When we come in June, we would like to sort these things out, so is it possible to sort it out in a few days?

Thank you for any help, it would be much appreciated
And so looking forward to living close by to some of you!