Robert Joseph

To r ranson - Amen. We need both - theoretical and practical - to maintain balance as the future unfolds. Each feeds the other.
Though I would also suggest that moving the overarching mindset and attitude from 'dominion' to 'stewardship' is the ultimate answer.

When I've read accounts of people who have done extended fasts, they do say it gets easier after the third day, so maybe you are talking about fasting?  Wow.

Yes. For probably 95% of people, appetite ceases after 3-5 days of water fasting. For the other 5%, I think it's just emotions!
And well into their fasts, plenty of people have dreams of dancing pizzas and Chinese buffets...

Amy Francis wrote:Obviously what was the case may not now be true with better knowledge.  At the time i.e. the last century, I read that fasting slowed down the metabolism which put me off continuing (and now I can't fast because I have high blood pressure!)

Please do look closely into fasting for high blood pressure. It helps tremendously.

Julia Winter wrote:I've been doing short fasts (I eat between 6pm and 9pm most days and have for more than a year) but they aren't water fasts.  I allow myself coffee with dairy during the day.  It's working well for me.

Great. Carry on!

I'm going to quibble about ketosis.  My understanding is that it takes 12 hours to burn through your glycogen, and then you start burning fat.

In normal daily life on a varied diet, you are always burning a very small amount of fat, along with copious carbs. And even a tiny amount of protein as well. We just talk about these metabolic states in an absolute sense for clarity. The fact is that it's a fluid, overlapping situation at all times, even when fasting.
Here's a little graphic that shows what happens with fasting:

I really like Dr. Jason Fung on this topic.

Yes, he's a good one.
BTW, should anyone be interested in a supervised fast, here is a list of practitioners: http://iahp.net/refer.htm

r ranson wrote:

Robert Joseph wrote:
I don't know you health history, ... "There are causes of health and causes of disease. Practice causing health and you will have it. Stop causing disease and it will disappear."

Yes, it's a very long and complicated history.  About 15 years ago, I was told to set my affairs in order by the end of the week, due to an infection.  It's in remission now, but it's done a lot of damage.  The journey has given me a lot of experience with naturopathic and allopathic medical systems in two countries, and I've seen the extreme ends of good and bad in both those medical styles.   What I learned is I need to take the active roll in my own health.  Doctors are advisers but it's me who is taking the pills or making the lifestyle change.  If their medical advice doesn't fit with my style or I don't understand it, it is up to me to question the doctor and seek a path to health together.

Good man! Excepting emergency situations, if one wants to get healthy, they must take the reigns themselves.
Again, I don't know your health history details, so I'll generally say that careful use of fasting, complemented by pro-active lifestyle changes where necessary, can go a long way toward healing... much more than you might guess. The healing response inherent in fasting is many times greater than normal... because it has to be to survive. If done wisely, I think you can achieve great results over a fairly short period of time.

One trick I find really useful is to repeat to the doctor what I understood of the conversation.  Not only does this provide an opportunity for them to correct misinterpretation, but it shows them that I actually listened to them!  Revolutionary, apparently.  My active listening makes them more interested in helping me become healthy because they feel listened to and valued.  It's such a simple trick but it's improved the care I've gotten tremendously!  

Again, good on ya, mate! The greatest gift we can give anyone is our full, undivided attention. It always brings the best results.

Be careful about the advice of your GP. The vast majority of conventional docs have no clue about fasting, haven't done any fasting themselves, and have no clinical experience with it. If your GP does happen to have some good knowledge and experience with it, great! Best to ask him/her directly about what they know. It's all well and good to read (2nd hand) the science studies about fasting, but there's nothing like doing it yourself and supervising it for hundreds of others to really know what fasting is about.

This is a good point.  

GPs have a tough time of it because they have to know enough about every part of the human body and psyche to give a primary diagnosis and get us to the right specialist.  They have to be in-depth generalists and it's easy to assume they know everything!  The thing is, they are also human and the best ones I've had will admit "I haven't seen that before, but I'll go ask my colleagues in the next room if they have".

I'm very lucky in the way my doctor approaches things - the doctor knows the patients are going to try alternative treatments and doesn't poo poo them, but instead says "that's neat, I don't have any medical reason to say that will work or not, but let's monitor it and make sure it's safe to try that".  That's where the doctor first learned about fasting and saw it working for that person.  They investigated it, went to some classes, tried it for themselves, and now suggests it in some cases.

Before I started the fasting, my doctor sent me home with the suggestion of some books to get from the library - both for and against - so that I can go into this well informed.  I admit, if I hadn't read those books, I probably wouldn't have tried it as it seems crazy and contrary to what I was told by earlier health professionals.  

Having spent several decades in the fasting world, I can honestly say it is the most potent, most powerful, most precise, safest, most comprehensive and most unheralded therapy in the world. All types of conventional and alternative therapies don't have much of anything positive to say about water fasting, probably because it's free, and your body already knows how to do it. No need for drugs, herbs, exotic therapies or weird remedies. Your body already knows how to fix itself, and fasting gives it the greatest opportunity to do so.

Your own body has incredible power and potential within it. Mostly we just need to get out of its way. Fasting is often said to be "the best way to do nothing." Nothing, in this case, is intelligently allowing your innate intelligence to take charge and get the job done. We simply need to stop poisoning ourselves, stop over-stressing ourselves, and learn to live a biologically appropriate lifestyle that is properly attuned to our anatomy, physiology, psychology and spiritual aspirations. Simultaneous with that, all us humans need to get our act back together and recreate a healthy natural environment for ourselves, and that is exactly what this website is all about.

r ranson wrote:I haven't had a lot of success with it fixing the main problem it was supposed to tackle.

I don't know you health history, so I am not qualified to comment precisely. Generally, if your problem is a chronic one, it will require some time, and perhaps more intensive fasting for your body to heal all the layers of compensatory degenerative 'band-aids' your body has had to initiate to cope. And of course, if the primary cause of the chronic disease is found and discontinued, the problem will likely not reoccur.
As I often say, "There are causes of health and causes of disease. Practice causing health and you will have it. Stop causing disease and it will disappear."

I don't think I'm going into a keto state during my fast time.  I don't have the symptoms nor the smell.

You are definitely not into ketosis yet. It requires 36-48 hours for ketosis to kick in completely. Before ketosis, your body uses stored carbs first, then a short period of using proteins for energy. Then the wholesale burning of fats begins.

absolutely - having measurable results before and after are wonderful!  Not just Keto but any big change in diet or treatment.

Be careful about the advice of your GP. The vast majority of conventional docs have no clue about fasting, haven't done any fasting themselves, and have no clinical experience with it. If your GP does happen to have some good knowledge and experience with it, great! Best to ask him/her directly about what they know. It's all well and good to read (2nd hand) the science studies about fasting, but there's nothing like doing it yourself and supervising it for hundreds of others to really know what fasting is about.