Carmen Rose

I would very much appreciate input into how to live without refrigeration. I've been off grid for a year and without the ability to keep food cool. During warmer weather I just don't have milk or fresh meat unless I'm going to consume it almost immediately. A couple of times I got frozen meat and used it the next day. But I'd really like a better system. I enclosed my typical, cheap ice chest in an extra 3 or 4 inches of styrofoam (recycled, of course) and it improved efficiency by about 100 percent but I would still like to do better. TIA to anyone who can give me great pointers.

So very many things to be thankful for! 1) My friend, Jesus. 2) Living off grid on 8 acres of wildland. 3) The rain today. 4) Family 5) Permies.com 6) 2 good dogs 7) Healthy food and progress in raising my own Vehicles that are - currently - reliable 9) Friends 10) my church 11 to infinity - There are just so many things to be thankful for. There isn't enough room here to list them all.

I tried to import purslane to my property twice without success. Then I got a load of rabbit manure from a friend and voila! purslane sprouted. It's still in the bucket. I'm afraid to move it lest I kill it again. But I do love it.

I find mung beans and amaranth at Winco in the big bins. Cheap seed that grows just fine.

Mary Combs wrote:Hi Again Carmen ....



I've attached photos below as an idea of what is involved. Your load will be a whole lot smaller, but plan for it in advance anyway. I hope this additional information is helpful. Good Luck!!

Thank you VERY MUCH! for this information!! I would never have thought about it and, although they should be able to drive directly to the site, unloading will probably be a challenge. And, sadly, with the thievery in my area, I have already planned to have someone on site 24/7 until we can put it up. I think I'm about ready to sign the order but would sure feel more confident if anyone in the surrounding area has done one of these and wanted to be involved ... just suggesting ... hoping ...

Keep us appraised about how you get on.


Thank you so much for the helpful, experienced input. It's just what I needed. I've been dealing with a company called Mayflower and am about to sign the paperwork - unless someone warns me not to, anyway. About $18,000 for a 25'x30'x18' building to be delivered in June, but they'll hold it for up to another year if I'm not ready then. Any and all input still welcome. That's a lot of money to commit, not being able to see the future clearly.

John Indaburgh wrote:I bought an acre and a half with a Quonset Hut on it very cheaply. There was an addition built on to it with a masonry fireplace. The home was insulated and had an air conditioner and an oil furnace. The Quonset Hut was built on top of a 12+ course high concrete block basement. The QH was a 16 1/2' X 37.5' WWII military surplus unit erected in about 1950 as "temporary housing". There were rough cut 2x8's spanning across and into the top course of blocks. On top of this was a metal grid which the QH sat on. The side walls were about 4' high and then began arcing up. There were no windows along the side walls and you couldn't mount kitchen cabinets. There was a double width window on one end and a door and a small window on the other end. The steps to the basement were along the middle of one side wall and the addition was built along most the other side wall.

The addition added two rooms also built on a matching height foundation. The addition made it much more livable. It added two rooms with windows which complemented the 3 rooms of the QH. Because of the addition and the basement steps there were no windows in the middle room of the QH so we referred to that room as the "useless room". After 62 years we removed the "temporary house" and built a small real house. We framed out a bathroom and the necessary hallway in what was the useless room. We hadn't planned to remove much of the addition. The roof needed to go because the roof trusses sat on top of the QH. The walls weren't the correct height and then the builder found that they had used half the addition for a porch for a number of years and when they framed that in they laid 2x4's over the roofing and the floor under that was "soft".

Before I made my offer for this property there was an offer awaiting mortgage approval which failed because of the only bathroom being in the basement. I think that was a mistake as I can't believe anyone would put a mortgage on a Quonset hut and then on top of that the basement bathroom. That offer was for 15% more than mine.

We hired an Amish crew to frame the new house in 2012. They charged us $7800 to remove the old and frame out the new including the tar paper on the roof. They took 3 days for demolition and framing. That didn't include the framing kit; the lumber, windows. doors, etc. We did this in a county with a larger city with tough zoning. There was and is a septic tank which wouldn't have happen except that we used part of the old house; the foundation. There was a matching QH about 30 feet away on another lot which was torn down shortly after our project. They're now building an oversized 2 story house about a 100 feet away on that acre lot.

Wish I had an Amish community nearby. They have such a great reputation for building!

Indeed, many experts but how do I know who has good theories they want to try out and who has actual tried and true experience (especially when it comes to dealing with the county)? I will contact those people you have named. Thank you. I hadn't found any actual local people with experience yet. It will be worth the cost to have confidence in the advice. Thanks again.

Amy Gardener wrote:This housing solution is temporary, correct Carmen? If so, these temporary ideas probably exclude pouring concrete at this time while you settle on your permaculture design and long term plan, correct? Since you posted under “Tiny House,” do you want the ideas that we generate to be portable / moveable options? If you are dedicated to the quonset hut, please confirm.
However, if you are open to other ideas or brainstorming give us specific requirements (such as mobility, money, temperature, sunlight, time needed, cooking needs, available power, building skills and so forth).
I’m sure that experienced permies members are full of ideas if you free us up a bit!
For example, I (a true amateur working alone) built a cozy standalone “tiny bedroom” on stilts for under $1000 in the equivalent of a week of full-time work. Would you consider a tiny bedroom for your dad, a tiny outhouse and a tiny cooking shelter while you continue living in the truck camper for the winter? These tiny shelters could be repurposed later. Because they’re small (~5’ x 8’), heat is passive solar (no panels).

Thank you for your answer. My Dad will definitely not be open to anything tiny. He thinks 520 sf is way too small, wants his grid-supplied electricity, plumbing, etc. He is not of a permies mindset. He's found someone to live with him for now so that buys me some time, but probably not a lot. He is willing to live in a quonset if it has those things so that's what I'm pursuing.

thomas rubino wrote:Hi Lina;
This is an old thread.  I know that Sandy/Cindy were trying to sell dragon heaters several years ago.
I do not know if they have or not.  
I have not seen any recent posts from her nor a new owner of Dragon stoves.
You may not get a reply.

Have you seen the Liberator RMH stoves?
They are UL listed and insurable.  They burn wood or pellets.  
They can push 12' of horizontal pipe; a trusted source recently said they can push 18'!
Here is a link https://rocketheater.com/

Of course, As the RMH guy, I say build your own with our guidance.

That's all well and good if you know what you're doing but I'm all new to this stuff and can't afford to build something the county will not accept and, thus, would need to be removed. I'm willing to pay a fair price for the advice and assistance to do it right the first time. If I were just building an outdoor experiment it would be different but I'm not.