tuffy monteverdi

Jay Angler wrote:  the only way I can water is with our deep, calcium rich well water. I think that's what did in my blueberries when I tried growing them. I'm thinking I will try putting some Fir needles on top as mulch, but maybe even more, put some Fir needles in a bucket, fill with well water, and let it sit a couple of days and then be watering from that bucket?

Hi Jay
FYI
We have the same issue as you, with acidic soil, and calcium-rich deep well water. Our water is even pH 7, due to minerals like manganese, but it STILL is a problem for plants that don’t like alkalinity.

Same as you wondered about:
we tried pine and fir needle mulches around blueberries and huckleberries. We even added acetic acid (compounds produced by fermentation anyway) to our watering of these plants and tested the water pH so it was Exactly 6.0-6.5. And it still didn’t work.
We concluded Acidic plants just plain ol’ need acidic conditions. We found the watering water to be really significant.

Very cool Anne
It’s great to know folks are thinking like this at governing levels 🙏

Agreed Daniel that in a big fire, nothing will stop it.

But, I’ve seen for myself that well-watered plants DO stop the particular lawn, tree, and structures behind it from burning in many cases.
I think it’s a good rule to do.

Obviously if the fire and embers come from the opposite direction, it won’t help.

A colleague of mine - had her barn (w animals) and house saved while a raging, giant, infamous, fire burned everything else around her, because her plants, trees, and grass were green and watered.

There are many factors that can help or hinder a fire, obviously. And there’s much we don’t know.

But, my philosophy is do all i can, don’t plant the fire prone oily plants irresponsibly, maximize what I know, annd base my actions on knowledge, experience, what I can afford, and the rest: I can’t worry about what I can’t control.

Maximizing the protection might look like 500-1000ft of BARE ground 360° around structures. But that still might not prevent embers from landing on structures.
And is that how you’d like your house and land to be?
We don’t have enough land to make that happen and still grow things and eat.

Its expensive, and difficult in a hurry, but Covering one’s house with aluminum “foil” blanketing is a viable way to protect one’s house if embers and fire don’t get in underneath.
There needs to be time to cover the house and get away with animals and go-bags in tow.

But even if I could do all that, I’d STILL maximize my landscape fire resistance.

Re quince:
Any fruit tree in the Apple family will be fairly resistant to burning outright, because they have juicy leaves. Including quince.
If you want fruit too, I’d go for the fruiting variety (which also has flowers) rather than the flowering one.

In fact, you were talking vines, and you could espalier any of those fruiting trees on your house, or on wood fencing, as if they were vines. Would look beautiful too.

Re lavender
Well I love lavender, personally, I use it for a lot of things. BUT, it’s definitely not fire resistant. It’s got a lot of oils in it - all those more fragrant plants do…
I make sure that the few lavender plants I have a well interplanted with greener juicier things.

Re mulberry:
I don’t know where you are located, but I have a friend growing White Mulberry (Morus alba), the super spreading fast growing eastern species in the high desert of So Cal.
It’s very drought tolerant, once established. It needs to get its roots down. Once that happens, I think you’ll be happy with it. An added plus of course is how great the forage is for ruminants and the fruit for us or wildlife as well. In the right (humid) climate it will spread more than some folks like.

Opuntia cactus is super fire resistant. And highly edible.

I forgot to mention:
There is a cool Australian bush fire site which ranks plants by burn resistance. I forget the name of it and don’t have the web link, sorry.
But, like the top 10-15 plants are ALL in the Atriplex genus. Common name is Saltbush. They are native to or will grow in most Mediterranean areas.

These plants are bushes/ shrubs, perennial, and have different species that will grow in seasonally marshy areas in winter with dry places in summer and are quite vigorous - plus they are *excellent* forage for ruminants.
They are in the lambs quarters family of plants (Amaranthaceae I believe).
I’ve planted many of these on perimeters especially but will put them anywhere I can. They are great for fire protection. I think it’s their salt content and their slight succulence. (Interestingly they do not salt the soils surrounding them).
They like full sun, which is one caveat.

What Burra said

And, re plants and trees:
Sometimes a watered lawn or watered plants, trees that are not dried out, are great fire prevention. It does not have to be pea gravel or bare ground.

There are newer studies now (after lots of recent fires) that show how trees especially, are clear fire prevention, not fire starters as was previously believed. (Pines are excluded because of their high oil content).

Oaks and Mulberry are two tree families that are quite protective. Oak with their thick bark and strong wood burn very slowly (why it’s important to thoroughly extinguish if one does catch fire). Mulberry with their juicy leaves and water holding trunks and branches can save houses from being burned themselves.

There is a famous photo of a mulberry as a single barrier to a fire burning a house. Everything else is burned. https://www.facebook.com/abccanberra/posts/pfbid0nQXohmGVh3iRfF8qeBr7KemegFB4LKRyKRfYzZWX83ceeG34V9yUyJPLDdZDUZhMl

For wood-sided houses, having succulents and juicier vines like grapes and roses - maybe even kiwis? All if well watered in the high fire season would protect rather than cause burning if dead material is pruned and mulch is used to keep soil creation and soil moisture ongoing.
Same with willow. And cactus. Succulents are great fire protection, being so filled with watery gel. Green Lawn well watered is very fire preventive.
A friend of ours recently went through a terrible fire in her area and her house did not burn because of the green lawn around it and no dead material.

Otherwise I’m in agreement w Burra’s comments about covering wood piles and keeping grass short.

Chance Lunceford wrote:
….or moved here to get away from people who …. say things like, "Kids? Ew... I'm good, too expensive and needy," and these same neighbors almost all garden, have fruit trees and bushes, and don't grumble about "property values," because my lawn is 6" tall and has clover and dandelion in it (🙄😂).

It’s possible to not want or have kids and still love a wild vicarious or intentional productive garden or park! 😄😉
Just sayin’…

Anne Miller wrote:Having cities that furnish parks that plant trees for folks to pick fruit is a fantastic idea.

Where I live the parks have pecan trees that are actually harvested.

I bet folks can pick pecan before the harvesting machine show up.

That’s so cool
What area of the world is this amazing city in, if you care to reveal?
It would never happen in my area, sadly.
I wish all city governments were doing these beneficial things and thinking about these kinds of issues.

I also suspect there’ll be large climate and humidity controlled greenhouses for growing coffee. It’s too expensive and too definitely a successful crop not to.
It just won’t taste as good as real coffee grown in the ground in forests and with real sun.

Robert Ray wrote:What would we drink in the morning if we were limited to the 100 mile food experiment.
 I drink coffee, I like cofee, maybe it's like nicotine and I have an addiction. Across the street is a coffee hut and it has a constant stream of cars every morning.
 What would you be drinking if through some catastrophic event occurred and no imported coffee or teas were available.
Looks like Youpon is the only caffinated North American tea and it doesn't grow near me.
Is it just a ritual? Like packing a pipe with tabacco or fly fishing is it the process?

Well if we’re only talking about caffeine/stimulants, there’s Yerba Maté (Ilex paraguensis) which can be grown in some parts of USA and shipped or ‘trained’ all over USA; there’s also Tea (Camelia sinensis) which can be grown in many places in USA.
The Kola nut I believe has caffeine?
As does Guarana.
Also cocoa bean

Most of these can be grown in the zone 10 or higher areas of USA and there’s no reason why we couldn’t. It’s just been easier and cheaper to have it sent to onus already grown and processed from other countries.

Rubia, the coffee genus, includes cold temperate plants like Bedstraw and Madder, but apparently they have carcinogenic compounds. Maybe there’s a way to remove them and use these plants as caffeine for cooler regions?