Trace Oswald wrote:Personally, I find all that completely unnecessary and detrimental to your relationship with your dog. I've trained big, strong, sometimes very stubborn dogs for many years, including professionally for a time. I have big strong dogs right now of different breeds and all of them are perfectly sound around our 11 cats and 32 chickens. I never had to do any of that bullying.
It's very easy to establish yourself as pack leader without trying to scare your dog into submission. That type of dominance theory was long ago determined to be incorrect and based on faulty information determined by watching packs of wolves that were not family units thrown together into artificial packs. This type of behavior, pinning the dog, forcing submission, and just generally ruling through terrorizing the rest of the pack is not seen by observing true wolf packs in the wild. John Bradshaw and many others have written pretty extensively on new ideas and discoveries of dog behavior, but for some reason, people think nothing new has been figured out in the last 100 years about dog training and behavior.
If you want your dog to do something or not do something, just tell it, and show it, what you want. Establish yourself as pack leader by hand feeding your dog and by walking the dog 45 minutes or so a day, on a leash, until they understand what is expected. If the dog starts to act overly interested in your animals, just say "nope" and keep walking. Dogs are far smarter than people give them credit for. They are easy to train. People? Not so much.
Here is my disclaimer. People that only believe you can train a dog by terrorizing it into submission are not usually open to any other ideas of dog training. I'm just giving my point of view based on my years of training, breeding, and raising dogs. I like this way better, and I believe my relationship with my dogs is stronger than that of a person that scares their dog into submission. There is no question in my, or my dogs', minds as to who the leader is. I just got to that point through different methods.
Well, Trace, there are a number of ways to train dogs, and being successful very much depends on the dog and the genetics you are working with. Some dogs are more dominant, and some more submissive. Some dogs have a strong play drive, while some have a very strong prey drive. Some dogs, all you have to do is say, NO! and they submit. But not so with others, particularly hardened working dogs. The methods you use for a typical Lab do not work well with a typical Akita. They have different temperaments and instincts.
What you say about feeding and walking the dog is the basic start that should be done with EVERY dog from the beginning. Pack leadership should be well established, as well as affection between the dog and owner. In fact, advanced training only works well IF you are a clear leader. And if there is a shared affection, it's even easier.
You use words like "Bullying" and "terrorizing", but clearly you don't understand the process. It is not either one, nor is either the goal.
What the process does is surprise the dog, and makes it clear to the dog that stalking or killing one of the flock will not be allowed or tolerated by the pack leader. They see an instant change in your demeanor, and that stark contrast is the key. The dog is not "terrified", but it should be shocked to see your sudden reaction. They typically make the connection almost instantly. That's why the dog accepts it so quickly. And once that mental connection is made, the dog won't do it EVEN WHEN ALONE and out of your control, which is extremely important in a LGD.
Remember, we are talking about dogs with a strong prey drive that have probably already killed and are determined to kill again, not playful house pets. These are the dogs that will dive into a pack of coyotes and tear up a bunch of them and chase them back into the woods. Dogs that will kill racoons trying to dig under the fence, and try to snap a hawk out of the sky if they swoop too close to the ground. Dogs that will fearlessly snarl and snap at a black bear if it gets too close to the fence. Not some little lap dog.
Have you ever watched a dog pack hierarchy? The pack leader lets the other dogs know what will and will not be tolerated. Usually, the leader does not have to fight, but they might, suddenly and viciously, but only if they are truly being challenged. You are using that instinctual behavior to your advantage.
If you are also a breeder and a trainer, we could go around and around, but I see no point in that. There are several schools of thought, when it comes to training, and some methods are more or less effective than others in various circumstances. I have studied numerous methods, and I have 30 years of success under my belt. I have saved dogs that were "dangerous and untrainable", and my dogs have saved human lives. And the bond of affection between me and the dogs is very strong and visible, if you have ever seen me with them.
And THAT is one of the most important points. If your dog is bonded with you, although it's natural instinct may be to kill, because of that bond and respect for you, it will suppress that desire and focus it on the real enemies. When you reinforce it with praise and love, it becomes a cemented behavior. But you MUST show the dog what you will not tolerate clearly. That is only fair to the dog.
That being said, there are some dogs that do not make good LGD's, Wolf-hybrids, for instance. Their prey drive is just too strong. Those can be very dangerous animals that require very specific handling, quite unlike regular, domesticated dogs. I started researching them, but decided that I didn't want the liability. Know your limits, they say.
