Cy Cobb

Hey Thom, you are correct, all the colors are the more nutritious option. Most of what I have is multicolored.

I didn't set out to breed specifically for white per se, but since I have some white varieties that started with a smaller seed count 75-100, I grew them out to increase the seed amount first, and to see if they were worth adding to future mixes. They do have some desired traits like large kernels for hominy & large ears in general. I haven't yet outcrossed my first crop of hickory king white, so that's what I'm doing here before the seed gets old.

Unfortunately, because of where I live, I think all farmers grow gmo yellow corn as far as the eye can see.  The good news is, you can avoid cross pollination by growing corn every other year during their soybean rotation or using planting times to your advantage.

As far as the farmers using saved seed, I don't think they can legally replant gmo seed, but if they did save hybrid seed with one of the parents being white & the other yellow, wouldn't the successive generations have the occasional white kernel from double recessive genes? Everything here is visibly yellow, but I can't say for sure about anything else.

I intend to continue improving my white corn mix either way, as I already have several more varieties to incorporate after I grow each of them out alone for a season first. That's why the ~3 year cycle, to give me a chance to grow out 2 new white varieties before crossing them into the mix, if I like them.

The blue corn mix is honestly just a project for fun to maybe learn something about breeding in the process.  I know that there are some really good seeds in the mix that I'd like to see how they do when pollinated by the white corn.  Every kernel in this mix was hand shelled off the cob by me, so I know that this blue seed mix will have a very wide range of phenotypes. Some may not be what I want to carry forward, but the ones that are should be pretty interesting as F1 hybrids.

Or, I could be overthinking things with this blue mix, but the idea was that if I controlled the 50% that I'm satisfied with (that is the white corn), then only the blue mother's traits would be the variable I'd need to determine. Since the blue mothers are not outcrossing, I can choose with reasonable certainty which ones I want to carry forward.  I imagine there will be recessive other color genes and double white that will show up in future generations, but I'd think that could be largely weeded out over time. I imagine that maybe blue strains such as Hopi blue, Cherokee white eagle, or any of the blue Pueblo landrace types were most likely blue seed that were saved and grown together over and over until the blue dominated. Even today, occasional other colors appear in a blue population, usually red from what I've seen. I'm just curious natured & have some seed to play with. Maybe something good will come from it, maybe I'll learn something.

I am curious about something else though that may be along a similar vein. I recall reading that Joseph Lofthouse attempted an all white corn landrace, but he could never get it to stay white. Does anyone have more information about this? Thanks.

I imagine most of us on here are at least somewhat familiar with open pollinated corn and have read a bit about some inherited genetic traits, maybe the xenia effect, or how hybrids are made, etc.

In the interest of combining a few breeding project goals in the same plot, I'd like to run my plans by you guys to see if I'm on the right track. Feedback or other ideas welcome.

Background: I have grown out 3 strains of 100% white dent corn over the past 2 years. The first year was Hickory King White Dent. I received about half of my seed from a reputable business & the other half in trade. I planted all seeds together in the same plot. They grew pretty well for me with most being 8-row, and a few 10 or 12 row cobs. Some even gave 2nd ears. Over time, I've shared or traded most of the seed I'd saved & only have a small amount left.

Last year, I grew out the 3rd strain of white dent that I'd received in trade as well. This one was labeled "Mosbic's Prolific" on the envelope, which after researching the best I could, I suspect it could be Moseby's or Mosby's Prolific, but what's in a name... anyway, I planted it, & it did even better than the previous year's Hickory King! Thicker stalks, full ears,  & generally leafier, which I suspect is an attribute of old timey silage types for fodder.

Goal #1) Since I am very satisfied with these strains, & like the ability to easily tell if any commercial yellow pollen landed on a silk here or there, I want to keep growing them. The problem is, I didn't start out with the minimum recommended 200+ plants of either variety, so it wouldn't be long before inbreeding took its toll. That's why I'm wanting to effectively broaden my white corn gene pool by combining these 3 original source strains via natural open pollination methods. I think they are compatible in many ways, & plan to continue crossing in different 100% white heirloom strains every 3rd year or so. Eventually, developing something new and relevant from many historically significant varieties.

Goal #2) I read somewhere that blue corn landraces are easy to make. While I'm skeptical, I assume they meant easy to select for color alone, which seems simple until you look closely at all the variations that can occur. So, what did I do? I manually sorted through my flint/ flour/ dent seeds one kernel at a time until I had a jar of mostly blue indiginous corn to start my blue mix. At face value, one would think that if you planted all these seeds together you would have a high probability of getting blue corn as the predominate outcome. However, I think there may be other ways to filter out undesired traits.

1. If I'm remembering correctly, any pollen from a plant with other than white kernels that lands on a silk of a white kerneled plant, would exhibit a developed kernel with a color other than white, indicating a hybrid cross in that single seed. If I planted the above white corn mix in double rows alternating rows with the selected blue corn mix, and detassled the white corn plants, then, any kernel that developed on the white plants' cob would be a hybrid fathered by one of the blue seeded plants, but not necessarily giving a blue seed in the F1 since the blue plant backgrounds are wildly diverse. That's a good way to get clear hybrids, but not if you want to see which traits the mother contributed to the kernel in this generation. I think I might want to try the opposite way.

In the same planting scenario as above, if I were to detassle the plants that came from blue seed & leave the white corn to freely pollinate both the white corn plants and the plants that came from blue seed. Then, wouldn't the mother plants that came from blue seed be the most reliable examples of what genetics are dominant in each mother plant since more or less, the white seeded pollen donors are about equal in contribution? In other words, since I know what I'm going to get by crossing the white dents with each other (more white dents), wouldn't being able to view each mother plant that came from blue seed be a better way to determine that plant's potential with regard to row count, kernel color, kernel size, ear length, aerial roots, plant health, etc.?

I hope I explained this well enough to understand, but if not, I can try again.

Thanks Thom. I run the rabbits out of the garden daily, but they don't stay gone long. I guess I need to break down & buy some chicken wire to keep them out. My neighbor used the 2' tall kind around his bush beans. It worked for awhile, but they eventually jumped it & wiped him out. By then though, the corn will be tall enough. I've learned that anywhere there's overhead cover from vines, be it cantaloupe, watermelon, pumpkins, or sweet potatoes, they just set up shop under the canopy. They sure have me feeling like Mr. McGregor the last few years.

A final update on this topic... the second planting went well at first, but by the time the painted mountain corn was 12-18" tall, the rabbits decided to take a break from my sweet potato vines to eat nearly all the corn plants down to the ground. I had 4 plants survive to silk stage, & only 2 gave any seed...and by seed, I mean 3 kernels from 2 plants. So, I'll add those to my mixed Painted Mountain seed for another try.

Almond Thompson wrote:Cy: how did your Rouge Vif D' Etampes cook up? I tried one and was not partial to it at all

Apologies for missing this post, but after trying them four different times, I've come to the conclusion that while edible and popular as stacking pumpkins, they are consistently too watery to cook via my preferred method of roasting at 400 degrees for an hour. I have sampled so many maximas over the years, and have gravitated to prefer the driest orange flesh without the "green strings" near the rind. If I ever get another Rouge Vif D' Etampes, perhaps instead of fighting against it to make it something it's not, I could work with it to make a whole roasted pumpkin soup? That way, the watery nature wouldn't be a detriment.

Thom Bri wrote:
When everything was against it, it still gave back a little. This was a hard year. Those are probably the toughest, most resilient ones. Give them a little TLC next year! I'll send you some more seeds after this harvest.

Thanks! Your seed selection ears are looking great! Some of mine still had moisture in the cobs which is why they dried a bit crooked. I made the decision to harvest the last of them now because I noticed some bird damage & a bit of white mold. I had no ear worm damage at all though, which is a first for me! In most years, I'd lose the tip of almost every cob to them.

Well, you might think this corn isn't much to look at, but for all it endured to produce a harvest, I'm pretty happy. The plants were healthy & had clear variability in color, aerial roots, cob type, row count, pollination time, & kernal color. The poor pollination was mainly due to sparse planting distances. I could definitely see the glass gem influence in some kernels, & while there are some sweet corn kernels mixed in, the rest are a nice smooth flinty type. The long skinny yellow cob I really like for some reason. It's only 8 row, but seems to have met its potential. I will save the best flinty seeds.

Stephen,

At the moment, I don't have a single sprout that hasn't been defoliated by rabbits, & honestly, I'm more interested in expanding my limited seed stock if any survive.  

I did have a first for me, an all white seedling with zero chlorophyll from one of my PM corn. There's a name for that, but as you can imagine, it only lasted until the seed energy ran out.

I think if someone were to want to try eating corn sprouts cheaply, I'd start with a simple DIY indoor sprout/microgreen set up to cleanly sprout hundreds at a time. I'd test it on a bag of popcorn from the grocery store. Give it a try, let us know.

2nd planting update on the Painted Mountain corn:  Between the rabbits nibbling every leaf to the stem & the sweet potato vines really hitting their stride (crowding out the seedlings), it seems to be a long shot to see a harvest from this batch.  Of course, time will tell...