Mark Krawczyk

Dominic Labelle wrote:While coppicing pure American chestnuts will not produce good size poles, will it produce nuts in good quantities?

I don't have personal experience here Dominic so this is all based on somewhat educated conjecture. Two things though -

1 - Perhaps I overstated the certainty I have that coppicing pure American chestnut will not yield sizable poles. It might not, but it also may. I've not seen it personally but I also don't see much American chestnut where I live so it's definitely hard to say. If I had existing American chestnut springing up in my woods, I'd definitely be keen to liberate it from surrounding shade and see how it does.

2 - As far as nuts go, I'd be surprised if you saw a good yield unless you were able to really open up the canopy and give it a long rotation. I'd think you'd need a minimum of 15-20 years. This is based on my experiences with Castanea sativa in the UK where coppice stools with poles approaching 20 years still showed extremely low nut yields.

But as with everything, the only way to know for certain is to try it and see (or learn from someone that you trust who says they've tried it ; )

Patrik Schumann wrote:Thank you Mark,

We've been in the NY forest tax program with 121ac under my management plan almost 15 years.  It offers 80% relief which welcome savings I'm investing into transitioning the family forest to quality hardwoods annual harvest sustainable subsistence operations, but is constraining due to the rotation forestry mindset, dragging bureaucratic culture, closed-shop professional network, lack of flexibility for agro-forestry.  Plus our township raised their tax rate to compensate their losses arguing that we're commercial.  Do you know anyone in VT's?  (We're unlikely to enroll the new 87ac to have a freer hand for agro-forestry.)

Opportunity zones are declared disadvantaged areas for capital gains tax-free investment going in, plus after ten years going out, so I imagined attracting such money to acquire degraded land, implement water/ soil/ forest restoration, then with intermediate products (black locust poles?) buy out investors.  They get their tax relief twice, growers end up with land & coppice agro-forestry setup, helpful forestry prop tax relief depends on differing state criteria.  Know anyone doing or interested in this in VT?  

We arranged custom-milled black locust stakes for deer tubes from Blue Sky for replanting after a substantial windthrow event, but he has passed & was the last BL-specialised operator I had found east of the Ohio River.  What is your take on the species, attitudes to it among regulators, its market & potential, its roles in & actual agro-forestry projects/ operations?  Do you know anyone working it?  

Thank you so much for your good works & specific insights.  I have been waiting for such information plus an exchange with you.  My hope is to develop a three state & comparative project collaboration.  

Best, Patrik

Hi Patrik
So we've got a 40 acre woodlot enrolled in Vermont's current use program. Sounds like the tax relief is pretty similar. It is limiting in it's scope but I'm okay relegating that parcel to a more traditional silviculture type managment since it lends itself pretty well to that and our 12 acre home parcel has been a great size for most of the grazing and tree crops related agroforestry related enterprises we've been up to. But I totally hear you on the myopic focus on timber production. I believe the state recently added a provision for landowners that allows them to manage the stand for 'old timber' (or something to that effect - I can't recall the term). Basically they're incentivizing folks choosing to allow their woods to mature unmanaged as a carbon sequestration tool.

I don't know of anyone doing the type of investment and restoration work you describe as part of opportunity zones. It sounds like an interesting model though.

As for black locust, I don't know if I can answer all of your questions concisely. In short though, it's a species near and dear to my heart. I didn't realize the owner of Blue Sky had passed away. I know there have been discussions about the species throughout our region over the past few years but haven't head about any significant projects focusing on it.

We planted 2/3 of an acre of it as a coppice with standards patch 7-8 or so years ago. It's coming along but unfortunately, we've had a lot of damage from the locust stem borer which has me concerned about it's utility for rot resistant polewood uses. Of course it'd still be great firewood but that's not my primary desired outcome of course. We're on heavy clay soils with a high water table so it does'nt really like growing on our site to begin with but I wanted to make it thrive here.

I think attitudes surrounding black locust as an invasive are generally backwards and short sighted. But fortunately there aren't any restrictions on using the species here in Vermont.

Because it's relatively uncommon commercially here in Vermont the market is quite limited but I would tend to think that there would be strong demand if someone were able to reliably fill it. It seems like a near essential species for agroforestry projects looking for fiber and fodder yields in a cold temperate climate in my mind. How can you argue with a fast growing, supremely dense, exceedlingly rot resistant, nitrogen fixing, thorny, thicketing species, with deliciously fragrant edible blossoms that bees love, with a high quality fodder quality for livestock!

We bought specially milled locust 6/4 x 4 sills for our house from a mill in Springfield Vermont about 8 years ago when we started building. Other than that I just have a few dozen friends and colleagues who have been planting it on their farms and homesteads for the past couple decades. But I don't really know of any commercially dedicated projects.

All the best
Mark

C. Letellier wrote:Has anyone tried to grow a shed?   Probably ideally using black locust.  Plant the outline posts.  Graft the branches together between trees to form wall supports for later dirt fill.  Pollard the wall trees back at wall height and bend fast growing rods for roof late season.  Kill off all sprouts up so only laterals and down aimed branches grow.  Grow till strong enough and then earth berm/sod over everthing?

I've never heard of it, but I've imagined similar things. But then I wonder if it wouldn't be easier, faster and more functional just to build the structure you want from polewood or lumber. And it probably would be. Making a roof formed from living sprouts that's water tight seems like a particularly challenging prospect to me. I've seen a number of different artistic arborsculpture structures but the creators never seem to try to turn them into finished functional buildings.

But you should totally try it!

Mary Combs wrote:

Mark Krawczyk wrote:

Mary Combs wrote:

Lina Joana wrote:

Mary Combs wrote:This is a bit long, but describes my ongoing tree fodder project and may give you some ideas.

You're probably already aware of Shana Hansen of Three Streams Farm in Belfast Maine, but she's been doing some great work researching a number of aspects of tree hay feasibility and has completed at least one if not a few USDA SARE grants on this. Here's a link to a recent report - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xH08aJD0RY1fXgPu1Csh4U5_h0g1QTDC/view

And on this page http://3streamsfarmbelfastme.blogspot.com/p/tree-fodder-info.html
scroll down to "tree fodder related documents" for more.

All the best!
Mark

Thank you for the response!  Looks like I'm woefully behind the leaders in the field of tree hay, I was not aware of the author you have cited and look forward to a detailed study of her work and related threads. This will probably save me a lot of unnecessary trial and error. It's always useful to stand on the shoulders of the ones who went before.

I do have some initial thoughts from a first reading -
a)   I would still be hesitant about including Black Locust in any feeding program, not only because of the thorns but because of a deep seated prejudice about toxicity. I had plenty of thorn pricks as a child and every one festered like mad. One poster here has said black locust fodder is edible in moderation, but if the animal doesn't have free choice (as in shredded or ensiled), I'd want some detailed lab tests on toxicity before using on my herd. Its easier to just not include locusts in my project.
b)   While not as strongly concerned about red maples (and big leaf maple), Plants for a Future lists them as only moderately edible and livestock sites say their wilted leaves are poisonous. There are other acers that are more edible.
c)    Livestock sites also warn against cherry leaves and bark being toxic - definitely off my list for use in a pasture.
d)    If I tried to ensile chipped/shredded material in bags stacked in a barn, I'd be over run with rodents in short order!  Using a concrete bunker would be ideal in our situation if one were already available that could be repurposed - but the cost of a new installation would be pretty prohibitive. However, these articles triggered another thought. The website repurposedmaterialsinc.com is a site I've bought from and can recommend (we use their repurposed billboard vinyls in place of tarps). They sell 55 gallon metal drums with locking lids for $40 each. These are not food grade, but I'd use bags inside anyway. I'd probably go looking for similar containers in food grade. Certainly for trial runs of ensiling chipped tree fodder, barrels would be affordable and reusable or resaleable. They would also be rodent proof.
e)     Their protocol for pollarding is to cut close to the tree - no further out than arm's length. That is not what I have in mind. I'm looking for an outcome that basically looks like an umbrella when fully reclothed in leaves. Branches would not come below 7 to 8 feet, and tops of the highest collars be limited to 15 feet. Permanent side branches would extend out as far as they would prove strong and stable - but probably 10 to 15 feet in all directions, but not overlapping between trees in the same row. I would have to see how the harvesting works out, but I'm probably more interested in a thinning operation every other year, than in denuding any trees. This is because these trees will provide services beyond just tree fodder (shade, fruit, etc).

Do you think the pollarding pattern I have in mind is feasible, even though it doesn't match with other published techniques?  

Hello Mary

Here are a few responses to your points/questions -

a- My sheep have had no problems browsing black locust but I understand why you'd choose to be cautious. They absolutely love it and devour it with great relish whenever I give them access to a paddock with any growing.

b- I don't believe I've ever heard about red maples being poisonous when wilted but that could be true. I have heard that about cherry though.
c- See above... and it's my understanding that fresh cherry leaves aren't toxic. It's only after they've wilted.

e- This is something that Shana and I have discussed in some detail and I think the jury is still out as to the overall 'best' pollarding practice. She points out that different species have different tolerances when it comes to how many pollard 'knobs' they can sustain and how far they can extend from the main stem. In over 10 years of research on the book, I've only ever encountered a very small handful of sources that clearly describe any specific strategy to create and maintain pollards in any detail.

Because of this, I can't tell you with certainty what is best for your specific situation. Keep in mind that Shana is largely working in existing forest and doing her thinning, lopping and pollarding on trees with quite tall canopies. This is a very different context than many folks who are interested in adding more open grown trees to pastures. I would imagine that these two distinctly different contexts would tend to require different approaches since a forest grown tree will not have nearly the same robust and branching canopy as an open grown tree would.

I do think that a 15' extension from the main stem could be asking a lot of the plant. It'll also take you quite some time to establish that type of architecture if you're planing seedlings. It's possible you could make it work, but I can't think of any pollards I've ever seen with branches extending that far out from the main stem. 10' seems more feasible, but in my experience, it all changes when it comes time to actually make the cuts. The longer the branches extend the stronger they'll need to be to support the weight of the sprouts - especially depending on your rotation length.

And last - when it comes to a more 'selective thinning' type management, I'm not sure how well that would work. Again, it's quite possible it would work fine, but most pollards I've seen around the world usually involve an almost complete removal of all sprouts from each knob. In some areas they leave a single sprout per knob to serve as a sap riser but other pracitioners don't... I do wonder how you generate robust new sprouts if you always leave some sprouts of various levels of maturity in place.

Again, there's a lot I still don't konw - especially when it comes to pollarding best practice. I encourage you to experiment and share your experiences.
It sounds like you've got a lot of good, engaging, fun work ahead!
Mark

Kate Downham wrote:The week is nearly at its end and I probably won't be online when the winners are announced, so I thought I'd post this up from the publisher now, for anyone that didn't win (or doesn't want to wait) and would like to get a big discount on Mark's excellent coppice book.

The publisher, New Society, are offering 50% off "Coppice Agroforestry", and all their other books when ordered directly from their website, until December 5th. If you'd like to access this discount, you'll just have to enter the code Read50 at check out. Here's the link to Coppice Agroforestry at their website: https://newsociety.com/books/c/coppice-agroforestry

Thanks Kate! I really appreciate the support.
And... if you miss the sale and also want to support me directly, I sell the book on our farm website - https://www.valleyclayplain.com/product/coppice-agroforestry-book-pre-order/11?cp=true&sa=true&sbp=false&q=false

I earn 5-10 times more on each book sale when I sell direct to a customer - and for those who care, I also sign each copy.
But whatever the case, I hope you're able to access good, useful information in whatever way works for you and  your budget.
With gratitude,
Mark

[quote=Andrew McDonald]To Mark, Hi!
Would really like to get stuck into coppicing Alder and Willow around my pond this coming Spring. Throw us a bone and float me a book on how to do it?
Red.[/quote]

Hi Andrew
It's my last day here replying to questions and I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. But yes - alder and willow both should be great options to coppice around your pond. Try to do it before bud break. It's really more of a wintertime activity in a perfect world. Assuming wildlife doesn't girdle or browse the sprouts you should see some great growth by the end of next season.

All the best
Mark

Jeff Marchand wrote:Hi Mark, I heat with wood but I have an embarrassing abundance of the stuff, especially now as emerald ash borer has finally arrived at my woodlot .  I do plan on planting hundreds of honey locusts, persimmons and mulberries in my beef pastures that I will pollard and hybrid willows that will be coppiced for tree fodder. Branches will be chipped for mulch and animal bedding ala Joel Salatin's pigarrator.

I look forward to reading your book for tips and advice.  

Cheers.

Hi Jeff
Sorry to hear about the emerald ash borer damage. It's just begun to spread here in my locale in Vermont unfortunately. I too share a similar abundance of wood in our woodlot so my coppice utilization really need not focus on fuelwood anytime soon.

Sounds like you'll be setting you and your herd up with a pretty dreamy landscape!
Enjoy the journey : )
Mark

Cody Hahn wrote:Mark, I do have a question specifically for you pertaining to the actual construction of the book, but the question could also possibly be answered by anyone who already possesses a physical copy of the book (possibly Jay Angler could, if Mark doesn't see this post of mine). I see that the physical copy offering of the book is a paperback-do you happen to know if it is a glued-only paperback binding (such as a "Perfect" bound book)? Or does it happen to be a paperback with a sewn binding, lending a greater degree of longevity to a book over a longer period of time, especially if referenced heavily and read and worked through a great deal?

I have begun to see and now own certain paperback books that are also of a sewn binding construction, and while these books have been slightly more resistant to opening up, I have found them much longer-lived than glued-only paperbacks, and this is a very nice feature of construction to have in any book, but especially a book that could see the possibility of extensive use and revisiting by those interested in this subject, as I doubt this is a one-and-done book, especially with what appears to be quite a breadth and depth of information presented.

Thanks Mark.
-Cody Hahn

Thanks for your messages Cody. I've tried to create a book that covered the fundamental facets of coppicing and 'resprout silviculture' as thoroughly as possible. While there's always more to add (and more to learn) I hope you enjoy it if you have a chance to read it.

I'm not positive, but I'm pretty certain that it's a glued-only paperback binding. I'd suggest you reach out to the publisher (New Society) for confirmation though. I'm sure they'd also be receptive to your feedback about binding quality and appropriateness for different types of books (one time read throughs vs. reference books, etc).

All the best
Mark

Jane Mulberry wrote:Interesting blog post, Mark! I never realised many of those forests were coppiced, or that the pines weren't native.

The region my little piece of land is in is very different to around Sofia, as it's in the far north-east on the Danubian plain. It's steppes rather than mountains. Mostly now broadacre agricultural, any woods are grown-out hedgerows and shelterbelts on field borders or along roads. There's also a lot of self-seeded younger trees, primarily black locust, on abandoned village homesteads, mixing in with the old orchards and nut trees around houses.

I'm so blessed to have the opportunity to steward this land, but I would love to see the trend for young Bulgarians to move to cities reverse!

Very interesting Jane. I too hope the countryside sees a healthy, inspired revival soon. In the mean time, it's great to know that you're embracing your role as a steward of a patch of the plain.

Rebekah Harmon wrote:Hey Mark, for what kinds of reasons would you use sea buckthorn for coppicing?  I have them in my orchard as a nitrogen fixer, but I didn't know you could coppice it.

Hi Rebekah
So I also have planted them as a companion/nurse tree nitrogen fixer and they do double duty when/as I coppice or pollard them and use the biomass as either chop and drop mulch or use it to make biochar. I also anticipate that the coppicing will stimulate some root die back, releasing organic matter into the soil.

They're a quality fodder for livestock so they could either be occasionally browsed or used for cut and carry fodder.

As a suckering species, any time we cut them heavily, we tend to see new sprouts form from adjacent roots. We could use this as a technique to propagate more plants or another opportunity to generate mulch or biomass.

And last, most of the folks I know with fairly substantial plots of seaberry harvest fruits by pruning off branches, flash freezing them and then knocking them about to dislodge the fruits. If done with intention, I'd imagine this could be done in a pollarding style.

Because all of our seaberries were unsexed seedlings we have roughly equal parts male and female plants. We manage the female plants much more gently and use the males for more of the biomass/chop and drop mulch.

I'd imagine it'd make a great addition to a living hedge also where it could be periodically 'laid' to keep it dense.

It sure is a great species!