Tyler Ludens

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since Jun 25, 2010
Central Texas USA, Zone 8
Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
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Recent posts by Tyler Ludens

Michael Cox wrote:First and foremost, permaculture is an agricultural system. The intention is to provide for people first and foremost

Not according to Bill Mollison, who taught that the first rule of permaculture is "Care of the Earth"

Mollison wrote clearly about the goal of permaculture to return most of the land to wild nature. 

"One certain result of using our skills to integrate food supply and settlement, to catch water from our roof areas, and to place nearby a zone of fuel forest which receives wastes and supplies energy, will be to free most of the area of the globe for the rehabilitation of natural systems.  These need never be looked upon as 'of use to people', except in the very broad sense of global health."    Bill Mollison, Permaculture a Designers Manual, page 6-7

7 hours ago

elle sagenev wrote: I want trees though. I want shade.

I believe some of us are People of the Trees and some of us are People of the Grass.  Some of us are even People of the Desert (colloquially known as "Desert Rats").  I know I am a Person of the Trees.  I only feel comfortable when I am surrounded by trees and shade.
20 hours ago

Marco Banks wrote:  But in your case, zone 5 would be a prairie ecosystem.

It would only be prairie if the elements of prairie were restored - fire and bison.  Otherwise it will naturally become forest.  Our land, once Tallgrass Prairie, is now almost entirely covered with forest.  The management needed to return the land to prairie would eliminate the possibility of it being actual Zone 5.  There are people who believe that the grazing behavior of domestic cattle is sufficiently different from that of bison for the two species to not be considered interchangeable.

Example reference:  http://www.bioone.org/doi/10.2111/REM-D-12-00113.1

The presence of domestic grazing animals on land would make it by definition not Zone 5 in Mollisonian permaculture.
1 day ago
Happiness to all on this Solstice! 
2 days ago

Anne Miller wrote:  I see them get caught in fences and we are helpless to help them.  We can't cut the fence loose because then the ranchers cattle will get out.

Sometimes they can be freed by cutting one wire, or two at the most.  Fixing it back with baling wire will help prevent escaping cattle.  At least that has been our experience with neighbors' fencing.

2 days ago
Our hunter hunts for meat, not trophies, and we want the easiest, safest, most humane kill.  So he has an elevated blind, and we put food out close to it.  He uses a shotgun with slugs, which can not travel far, and shoots toward a hill to further prevent stray bullets.  Our land is small and close to other houses and grazing cattle, so we don't allow rifles.  I don't consider providing food to be "cheating" but rather providing a delicious meal for the deer, possibly the last meal, if the hunter is fortunate.
2 days ago
I strongly recommend reading Creating a Life Together, by Diana Leafe Christian, which discusses why most intentional communities fail and how to avoid the pitfalls.


"Prairies historically covered 170 million acres of North America. This sea of grass stretched from the Rocky Mountains to east of the Mississippi River and from Saskatchewan, south to Texas. It was the continent's largest continuous ecosystem supporting an enormous quantity of plants and animals. Prairies began appearing in the mid-continent from 8,000 to 10,000 years ago and have developed into one of the most complicated and diverse ecosystems in the world, surpassed only by the rainforest of Brazil."


"We may never again equal the product yield of of the 60 million bison on the American prairies, with their unnumbered associated hordes of pronghorn and mule deer, and a host of minor species."  Bill Mollison, Permaculture A Designers Manual, page 436

Elsewhere in the Designers Manual Mollison goes into more detail about the greater productivity of well-managed wild systems versus domestic.
3 days ago

Ben Waimata wrote:I am from another country and do not know the local scene, but I wonder, is there valid reason to suggest the open praire subject to fire and bison graze is really the optimal ecology for the zone?

The North American Prairie ecosystem was the most productive ecosystem on Earth next to the Tropical Rain Forest, so I think it might be a challenge to come up with a system which is more productive in this region.  I think it is a worthy goal for humans to develop more productive sustainable systems, and I think we can learn a lot from previous and existing models.

3 days ago